"Welcome to the Hellmouth" / "Bring on The Night"

[red_satin_doll]

"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *

***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **

* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie

Comments

[kikimay]

I love parallels between S1 and S7. <3 They are so appropriate.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Gold star for first comment! *Hugs* I knew you'd like this; I saw the WTTH scene in a fanvideo the other day and Angel's line just popped out at me like, whoa. I suppose I could accompany it with a little analysis but why gild the lily?

I love parallels between S1 and S7.

I'm really fascinated by the early seasons again although I haven't done a proper re-view of 1-3. Ironically, Seasons 1 & 7 are the generally acknowledged in mainstream fandom to be the "worst" seasons or "least favorite" or whatever, but I'm very fond of both of them (of course I'm quite fond not only of underrated seasons but episodes as well.) Some people even attempt to argue that 1 is not a true season, just an extension of 2, and that it hadn't found it's footing (true enough); but dismissing it is just crazy-talk. The foundation of the entire show, the seeds of everything to come, planned or not, are right there from the beginning.

And S7 - S7 fans need safe space for our love! I try to provide.

[kikimay]

I also like S7 very much!
S1 is a cute young thing. It's the start. Basically, as you say, the main themes of the show have their bases on S1. The only thing that still bugs me is the late '90 sense of fashion.

[drizzlydaze.livejournal.com]

If you were to rank the seasons, where would S7 fall for you? I'm curious as to why you like S7, since there generally aren't many fans for it. I wish I could like it more than I do. One of my big problems with it is how a lot of the plot doesn't make sense even with all the fanwank in the world, which just takes me out of the story. I could go into specifics, but I'm sure you know the spiel. Spuffy is, of course, a major saving grace of the season for me. So, just wondering--reasons you like S7? Anything to say on the plot?

[comlodge.livejournal.com]

Wow. It's hard to see that this is the same person. So young and little girl in the first; so grown, world weary, knowing and strong for it in the second, We've watched her grow from an innocent girl, shy of her responsibilities to a young adult who has grasped what life has thrown her and done her best to not only cope but make a life worth living. From being led, being told, to leading and telling.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You've written the best summation of this I could imagine! I envy the way you capture the essence of things.

And I love the way that Buffy's story works as a whole; but then my experience of it, watching it within three weeks, was more akin to reading a novel than watching a tv show in real time. (I can't imagine what that would be like.) It varies for all of us, but there's so much in her story that I recognize and understand; and the deeper I dig, the richer it gets. At the same time, the digging raises more questions; there are some very problematic issues, but that becomes it's own layer of interest and inquiry.

[comlodge.livejournal.com]

You are the best stroker of my ego. :D

I think you have nailed the reason for my clarity though, and very simply. I too have watched the series after it was complete and in marathon sessions of multiple episodes that began with the later seasons.

The layers are, I think, why the show continues to attract and fascinate fans. It is why I'm caught. It's a woman's journey from daddy's girl into the grown up world with all it's ugliness that makes you want to run away, to the woman, who does not actually conquer life, but rather learns to trust her instincts and gains the real power, that we can't control what life throws at us, but we have the power to decide how we deal with it, how we live it.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I love Buffy's character journey over the course of the show :)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

*nods* Buffy's my BDH because she speaks to me in very real ways. And that's a tribute to the acting, the writing, etc.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

...holy shit, I love the "Bring On The Night" speech. Lovely parallel too.

Angel's dialogue in WTTH/TH really is chock full of thematic hooks - "She did it. I'll be damned." Yes, you will.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I love your Anne icon but then I get you confused with norwie! ;)

holy shit, I love the "Bring On The Night" speech.

Oh yes, very much so. (Except maybe for the "any questions?" line at the end, but Buffy has a habit of not knowing when to stop once she gets rolling with a speech, f.ex. "Grave".) I don't look at who wrote the eps generally so I had no idea Marti was one of the writers of this one, so now I have something else to point to when I read people dissing Marti.

I had forgotten the line in WTTH even though I'd rewatched it recently; I didn't catch it until I saw a fanvid on YouTube the other day.

"She did it. I'll be damned." Yes, you will.

Hee. I almost posted a cap of Angel saying that line to her, but then I found myself wanting to snark about Angel (gee, can you vague it up a bit, dude?) when I wanted the focus to be on Buffy. But - watching that scene is so funny in light of what comes later. "You're a lot shorter than I thought you'd be." I know people try to incorporate that into a cogent explanation - that he was lying about having seen her at Hemery, etc - but "the writers changed their mind later" works for me too.

And yet it's nifty that despite what does change, the foundation of what's to come is still there. (I'm watching Bones right now - for the sheer wtfery of it at this point) and it's instructive to compare the two, and see the difference between careful and sloppy (IMO) storytelling.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh and I forgot to add - at the time the speech in BoTH felt so rousing but the sort of thing I'd have expected nearer the end of the season, in more conventional series. I can see now that was the point - the speech that normally signals the turning point for the better for the heros only leads to more speeches. It's as if Buffy thinks it's going to make things better, just as Spike thinks heading off to get his soul is going to be the big fix-it all by itself. (So maybe the any questions line is there on purpose - to make the speech feel a little "off" at the end? Or maybe I'm fanwanking my way to Cleveland and back.)

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

Excellent parallel.


Gabrielle

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Thanks hon!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Thanks for stopping by, hon!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

BTW -did you WANT me to call you "sick and depraved"? because I'll do anything once - within reason. ;)

[snogged.livejournal.com]

Love it!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Thank you, sweetie!

Wednesday, April 17

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User oni_9 referenced to your post from Wednesday, April 17 (http://su-herald.livejournal.com/648899.html) saying: [...] "Welcome to the Hellmouth"/"Bring on the Night" [...]

[lanoyee.livejournal.com]

Uhhh hi there, I'm Kikoujutsuka on AO3, who has recently thoughtsplurged at you in response to a comment you made on my story. Uh. 8D;; (FTR I got here via Buffyworld.com.)

Anyway YESSS THIS PARALLEL also BUFFY MY BABY. This beautifully encapsulates her journey -- in WTTH, she had no idea what Angel was talking about, or well, a very vague idea that it wasn't gonna be good, and that it was part of those things she really didn't want to engage with at the point but also knew, deep inside, she'd better deal with. In Bring on the Night, though? She knows. She's lived on the hellmouth for six/seven years and she knows exactly what that means. She also knows she's only now going to face it head-on, instead of just the ripples it makes in her environment. She's ready, though. She's been through her worst, just came out of a period on her life where she probably couldn't have faced it, but now she's come through and she hates it, but she's ready.

Are you ready to be strong?

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh hey hon! I didn't know you had an LJ, welcome to my little parlour. I keep forgetting that Buffyworld also lists the su_herald links. Nifty. Anyhow, you gave me an excuse to revisit "Pen and Paper" (not that an excuse is really needed.)

Anyway YESSS THIS PARALLEL also BUFFY MY BABY

I got your back! ;) I was rewatching School Hard a few months back after I'd finished the series and that moment with Joyce in the axe just pops. I love the show for that so much, there's always new things to find.

and that it was part of those things she really didn't want to engage with at the point but also knew, deep inside, she'd better deal with. In Bring on the Night, though? She knows. She's lived on the hellmouth for six/seven years and she knows exactly what that means.

Yes, very well-said.

She also knows she's only now going to face it head-on, instead of just the ripples it makes in her environment.

Do you mean in terms of facing herself specifically in the form of the First, rather than a monster outside herself? I mostly agree, except that I don't know if she quite knows that yet entirely. She's not ready YET, but she has to convince everybody else that she is, and maybe she believes it herself. This marks the moment in S7 when she digs her heels in and becomes more inflexible. But she's just heard Giles say that Buffy was their only "plan", they had no other. She has to do it because there is no one else. That's been the point of the entire series. So she does what she always does - her duty. Just like back in Prophecy Girl, walking to certain death. But now she has less emotional resources to draw upon physically and mentally.

There's a contrast between this speech "We just became an army"; she's speaking for everyone, giving a command, trying to rouse and motivate the troops so to speak; and Chosen's "Are you ready to be strong?" laying out her case to everyone and giving them to option to participate or not; she's already told Spike "we're going to win".

I'll probably do another post on this because - gah. I'm really becoming very fond of S7, and I love all the parallels across the seasons. I love the contrast with this s

May I friend you, btw?

[clockwork-hart1.livejournal.com]

Perfect parallel is perfect.

The whole of S7 was supposed to be based around - and The First says as much "Going right back to the beginning".

I think they did this because ratings were steadily sliding and the show's peak was in "the high school years", but it works thematically - Dawn's maturing and her life is going in a newer, harder direction (i.e. High School), and Buffy, as an adult, now, still has ties to that young, innocent child within.

I think what I'm saying here is this is Buffy, as a maiden and a warrior, but her soul remains the same - it's the same look in her eyes, fear and determination.

So just yes to all of the above.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I think they did this because ratings were steadily sliding and the show's peak was in "the high school years", but it works thematically - Dawn's maturing and her life is going in a newer, harder direction (i.e. High School), and Buffy, as an adult, now, still has ties to that young, innocent child within.

One of my favorite moments in the series: Buffy scolding Dawn for dancing with RJ at the Bronze (and admittedly, lying to buffy about going to the library) and flashing back in my head to Buffy sneaking out of the house in S1 or dancingat the Bronze in School Hard, WSWB, Bad Girls. Such a perfect older/younger sibling moment.

the beginning run of that season (aside from the meh "Lessons") is one of the finest of any season IMO. FTR, I loved the contrast between the old, dark SDHS, which looked very much like a the middle school I attended that was about the same age as SDHS supposedly was, and the brightness of the new building.

this is Buffy, as a maiden and a warrior, but her soul remains the same - it's the same look in her eyes, fear and determination.

THIS, 150%. Just one of the most perfect descriptions of her I've ever read.