![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
red_satin_doll
"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *
***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **
* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2013-04-17 06:32 pm (UTC)I think you have nailed the reason for my clarity though, and very simply. I too have watched the series after it was complete and in marathon sessions of multiple episodes that began with the later seasons.
The layers are, I think, why the show continues to attract and fascinate fans. It is why I'm caught. It's a woman's journey from daddy's girl into the grown up world with all it's ugliness that makes you want to run away, to the woman, who does not actually conquer life, but rather learns to trust her instincts and gains the real power, that we can't control what life throws at us, but we have the power to decide how we deal with it, how we live it.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-17 08:21 pm (UTC)It's what I do. :)
I too have watched the series after it was complete and in marathon sessions of multiple episodes that began with the later seasons.
I do think that makes a huge difference. BTW, where did you start? If you started with the late seasons, did you have any difficulty "sliding in" so to speak? I watched it in strictly chronological order and can't imagine it any other way because so much of what happens in any given episode builds directly on what came before - sometimes seasons before. With other series I'll cheat, I'll jump ahead, etc; I was never tempted to do that with Buffy.
It's a woman's journey from daddy's girl into the grown up world with all it's ugliness that makes you want to run away
And I'll add, a mommy's girl as well - and I don't mean that as a perjorative term; Joyce is so central to her life in a way I understand as the daughter of a single (divorced) mom, as you know.
to the woman, who does not actually conquer life, but rather learns to trust her instincts and gains the real power, that we can't control what life throws at us, but we have the power to decide how we deal with it, how we live it.
Yes, exactly. Our culture is very insistent that winning, success are the important things, the measure of us (how much money we make etc) but the important things are whether we can handle our difficulties with a measure of grace. It's not about getting it perfect, it's about trying. And it's about young people who live in a world with few stable parental figures, trying to measure out their own moral compasses, and learn that what we're told growing up is not necessarily the truth; it's up to us to suss that out for ourselves.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-17 09:28 pm (UTC)Totally. Everything is fresh in your mind. I did see the first few eps back when it came to oz, but this time round I started with Season 4 because I had been devouring fanvids on youtube of Spike. I came for Spike so I bought S4 to S7. I don't think it was a problem to see the life correlations starting here though perhaps I still had some small memory of those first few episodes. I'd only stopped watching back then because hubby is not into such things and we only had the one tv.
And I'll add, a mommy's girl as well
Oh totally. I suppose I was really focusing on the slayer side and Giles when I used that phrase. Joyce was a huge factor. I think, as women, we learn a lot from our mothers. I know I did. My mum was very capable and did things back then, that women weren't supposed to like painting the house and wall papering. I grew up 'knowing' that if I wanted to do something I could, because of my mum.
It's not about getting it perfect, it's about trying
Again, absolutely. If only everyone would 'suss' things out for themselves, instead of waiting for 'someone else' to fix it.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 02:39 pm (UTC)BTW, my partner won't watch Buffy, either.
I suppose I was really focusing on the slayer side and Giles when I used that phrase.
Gotcha - and I'm on my autopilot "Joyce was important too!" mode, whether it's appropriate or not. (tis a thing with me lately.)
My mum was very capable and did things back then, that women weren't supposed to like painting the house and wall papering. I grew up 'knowing' that if I wanted to do something I could, because of my mum.
She sounds like my mom - my mom was "mom and dad" even when she was married; she did almost all the work around the house, lawnmowing, household repairs, laying fiberglass insulation, etc in addition to childcare, laundry, cooking etc. I think she enjoyed laying insulation more than cooking at the time. (Now she enjoys cooking because she's not having to feed five other people every day, I think.) There's that phrase that women are trying to "have it all" but what I see in my own life, esp among working class women is not that women "have it all" (or even try to) but that they are "doing it all". Which is to some extent our own fault in not expecting men to really shoulder the burdens, or teaching our sons to do so. Hopefully that's changing to some degree.
One thing I learned from my mom was how to love - however imperfectly. When she was first freaked out by my relationship with my sweetie (less about the lesbian part than the age gap, I think) I told her that I am able to love because she taught me how to, and that meant a lot to her. And it's one of those "intangibles" that doesn't get considered or recorded because it doesn't add to the national GNP.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 06:23 pm (UTC)Re True Blood, I did buy a couple of eps off Itunes but I did not like it - too far from the books and a bit over the top. The guy playing Eric wasn't too bad though.:D I was also dissapointed in the next book in the series that came out back then and have not continued with it. Thought the author had lost the feel of the story and was just after the dollar.
my autopilot "Joyce was important too!" no autopilot here - Joyce was obviously hugely important to the way that Buffy developed. Joyce was a very real charachter, with failings and strength. I think Spike said as much in the show. I loved him and Joyce together. Only natural when he'd had such a great relationship with his own mother. I really liked that Joyce, if not trusted him, liked him and she did treat him like a young man.
My mum had her fair share of problems and things I wish I hadn't learnt from her, lol. But so do I. So do we all. She was never less than supportive for anything I did, even when I learnt to weld and build truck bodies and hung out with the boys. :D
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 06:48 pm (UTC)Joyce was a very real charachter, with failings and strength.
Watching it initially I wanted more of her, wanted her to know that Buffy was a Slayer sooner etc and be part of the story more. Which is valid, esp since Giles is so important to the story; but what is there is oftentimes very rich.
She was never less than supportive for anything I did, even when I learnt to weld and build truck bodies and hung out with the boys. :D
Good for her! I dare say that wasn't entirely usual for a woman of that time (it wouldn't have been in America, I think.)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 07:15 pm (UTC)I think I just accepted that as a reference to the fact that so few parents really know what their teenage children are doing. My son goes out with friends, goes to parties and I trust they are good things. But I don;t really know what they get up to. And you read the horror stories all the time. So I had no trouble with this.
I suppose for me she was the grounding in reality. Buffy could go through her front door and live normal for a bit, have a rest. I liked the way they handled the big reveal as well and Joyce's reaction. So correlates to real life.
Er no, not usual. I should have finished my aprenticeship but I didn't. :D
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 07:39 pm (UTC)*nods* I actually thought the metaphor of being "in the closet" was generally well-done (and not specific to sexual orientation) so I wanted more of Joyce in the story but did the reveal and how Joyce handle it seem real? Yes, very much so. And I think those moments are the most upsetting (for most people) watching the show because we want characters we love to be better than that, to be better than what they are.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-18 10:29 pm (UTC)That is so true. We want out tv people to be larger than life and oh so much better than we are. We want to think our mums would be better than that. And of course Joyce is. But we are reminded she is human, they all are and are allowed to show it and grow from it.
I really dilike S5 Spike - for his clumsy courting attempts, his Bufffy shrine. I wanted a smooth operator, after all 100plus years of experience.
Except William died a shy, 28yr old virgin withe one failed attempt at courting. So of course Spike is bumbling and awkward in what is only his second attempt at winning the girl. And he is alone, a lot so plenty of room for an obsession to grow.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-20 12:57 am (UTC)Exactly THIS.