"Welcome to the Hellmouth" / "Bring on The Night"

[red_satin_doll]

"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *

***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **

* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie

Comments

[kikimay]

I hate the fact that Joss still think he was "a good guy". And he was, ultimately, but he was also so messed up and parading around his big wounded ego and I wanted to someone to just point it out: Riley, you're a good guy but damn if you complain too much!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

For a moment there I wasn't sure if you were talking about Joss or Riley! Because they sure sound the same - the big wounded egos, etc. Joss acts like a baby when he doesn't get his way.

I'm not sure if I'd define Riley as "good or bad"; I think he's far more morally ambiguous than he wants to think he is. He wants to see himself as a white hat, but neither does he want to question the system or think about it to hard. As long as he can put things in neat little categories he feels safe. To me in that way he isn't heroic in the way that Buffy and Spike are.

And isn't that at the heart of fascism?

[kikimay]

And isn't that at the heart of fascism?

It is! Nice catch and nice analysis of Riley. I guess that I see him as "good" because he strongly believes that he's good but he does questionable things and he basically has this strong internal system because he's "the soldier", he's always been the soldier and he will always be. But soldiers are not always heroes.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

It is! Nice catch and nice analysis of Riley.

I'm actually cribbing off norwie2010 quite a bit, but thanks!

he's always been the soldier and he will always be. But soldiers are not always heroes.

Might doesn't make right. But if you're carrying the gun, you need to believe that, I think.

I do think he sees himself as lightened and liberal to an extent - liberal but not progressive or transgressive. He admires strong women, he marries someone who is his peer, but he's making adjustments to the system, not radical changes.

[kikimay]

Again, I agree with your - and Norwie- analysis. I think it's frustrating for the audience because Buffy often doubts about herself and her judgement while Riley mostly doesn't.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I think it's frustrating for the audience because Buffy often doubts about herself and her judgement while Riley mostly doesn't.

I had to process that a bit, but you're right. At least it's frustrating for those of us who love Buffy? (or maybe just you and me? IDK) After watching the show I was still steaming about it (thanks for nothing AYW! grrrr....) and said something along the lines of "Buffy wouldn't run after the helicopter she wouldn't beg or buckle like that," blah blah - and then someone said to me "Parker". Which then reminded me of how she blames herself for him (she has to go into CaveBuffy mode to take her anger out on him - which is funny in-context but if you think about it a minute, it's another proof that Buffy hasn't learned healthy coping skills. Then again, none of these kids have. You don't become healthy and well-adjusted in a vacuum!)

This is why Riley isn't a hero to me - he starts to wade into his own darkness, gets scared and runs away to create a life that looks very shiny on the outside at least. He projects what he wants others to see in him. Which, good for him on one level, but what happens the next time there's a crisis? There's an emptiness to him, IMO. And that's a lot of what I like about S7 - Buffy and the SG are trying to take responsibility for their own actions without taking on someone else's responsibility, whether with words or actions. (I include Spike in that, and I know that's a controversial thing to say.) The First and Giles arriving, actually, sidetrack Buffy on that account until nearly the end of the season.