"Welcome to the Hellmouth" / "Bring on The Night"

[red_satin_doll]

"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *

***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **

* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie

Comments

Re: sorry, I had to edit my reply 'cause I forgot something

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I don't mean just that, but regarding why fans rarely talk about the incidents you mentioned--what happened after the floor gave way in Smashed, the crypt scene. They're not talked about because they weren't in the show? Just guessing. There are dailies of the extended ending of Smashed, btw.

"It's the same damn thing to you vampires" and she's not wrong about that.

Oh, totally. His fantasies, "the slayer likes it rough" and so on. While I think the AR was poorly done, I've always rolled by eyes at the suggestion that it was OOC. The whole season is rife with the guy not taking no for an answer. Like you (and Buffy) said, love and pain and sex and death, it's all the same damned thing.

But we live in a fandom where threats of death are seen as shippery.

but he got it terribly wrong anyway

Yup. Not least of which because the story itself basically says that the "blowback" is justified and natural. It's one thing to portray something, but he reinforces it.

Buffy the show or Buffy the character?

I think Buffy the character. Or maybe they just cut it for time; I don't know, but I just don't think they'd have felt the need for the AR if they'd have left the Smashed scene in. I just wonder if they felt they might be making a misstep to have Buffy have sex with a guy who had such intentions.

"The radical notion that women are people too" - that's the simplest version.

That's how I try to think. Just seems to me that labeling something feminist because it aligns with a specific person's ideal is doing the same thing. Too many people think freedom should be limited to people agreeing with them.

Re: sorry, I had to edit my reply 'cause I forgot something

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

That's how I try to think. Just seems to me that labeling something feminist because it aligns with a specific person's ideal is doing the same thing. Too many people think freedom should be limited to people agreeing with them.

Hmm. If I'm reading you correctly, I'm sorry if I've given off the impression that I demand agreement; that is certainly not the case. (What I do demand is a modicum of civility on my LJ and I've been pretty firm about that. And being respectful and mindful of the fact that at the other side of one's computer is another human being.)

There are a lot of people who call themselves feminists and I certainly don't agree with everything they have to say; or they find my "feminism" wanting. That doesn't make the general ideas any less important to me. And I wasn't attempting to limit you in any way. Perhaps simply saying "Wow, you certainly show a lot of awareness about issues that are important to me and I really enjoy our conversations" will satisfy?

Re: sorry, I had to edit my reply 'cause I forgot something

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Oh, certainly not. I meant in the case of what freedom is, some people seem to think it extends only so far as they're own views of it. So you see a lot of people being labeled "not really feminist" because their views don't align with a standard measure. The idea that someone would of their own free will choose to be different never occurs to them.

Re: sorry, I had to edit my reply 'cause I forgot something

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Ah, gotcha.

I remember a copy of Ms Magazine while I was - in college, I think? With Gloria Steinem, bell hooks, Urvashi Vaid, and maybe one other women on the cover, and they cover tag "Feminists Don't Agree about everything - who says they have to?"

And I wondered, who said they did to begin with? (Then I started analyzing the relative position of each of the women on the cover to one another and what that MEANT. Remember, college student.)

As my friend Kendra said to me one time "Everyone has their own politics." Our opinions rarely mesh 100% with any given "party line" (and I tend to be suspicious of those who do, it implies to me a lack of free thinking.)