New Faith/Fuffy icon - it was time (in which I blather, excessively)

[red_satin_doll]

When I realized that:
1) Buffy, Faith and/or Buffy/Faith (I can go either way) was starting to take up major real estate in my brain, my fanfic and in my
    fandom conversations;
2) I can't decide from one day to the next which Summers sister I 'ship with Faith (I can go either way)
3) Buffy+Dawn+Faith+Tara = One True Family could totally be a thing in fandom;

...then it was way past time to get a new icon.

A.) Somewhere on the internet I saw an icon of Faith in Buffy's body in Who Are You, stroking Buffy's leg (now her own) in the bathtub with the text "Tell me again why Fuffy isn't canon?" (eleusis_walks's meta on Faith and Buffy describes the "masturbatory" nature of that scene. Tell us again why Fuffy isn't canon, Mr Whedon?) ETA: Mystery solved : it's beer_good_foamy's. Of course.



I haven't found that icon again but I came across a trove of Buffy/Faith icons on the "Fuffy fanclub"  at Fanpop.com. All of them were posted by a member named AcidBanter by the source is only given as "LiveJournal"; so I suspect that AB isn't the original artist.

My apologies therefore and if anyone here does know, please let me know so I can give proper credit.

I wanted to go with #2, "WIll fuck with your sexual orientation" or one of the funny ones with text to start, but my template shrinks the icons too much and I have this bizarre kink about legibility. It's a thing.(#3 's "subtext" is just barely legible in this template.) I may end up rotating all of these anyway, thanks to elisi's instructions on how to do that by using the exact same keywords for the new icon as the one it replaces.

1.)  2.) 3.) 4.) 5.)

BTW, I haven't rewatched S3 in over a year btw so I'd forgotten how pretty Eliza was that season - and can anyone tell me what the what is going on in #8 below?

6.) 7.) 8.) 9.) 10.)

B.) Now this is the sad part: Because I'm limited to 15 icons, someone else had to get booted off the island. And y'all know I love my babies something fierce. *sniffle* This is where I needed to be strong and decisive. Most of my icons were DO NOT TOUCH just TRY to pry them out of my hot little hands and behold the meaning the word "fierce". That left four candidates:

I've used this one to represent: Lesbianism, friendship and/or solidarity, proof on Willow-centric journals that I don't hate Willow; and that moment is one of my favorite moments in the entire series. CHILLS UP MY SPINE every time I watch it.
BTW - the W/T "spiritual handfasting" will be echoed by B/S in Chosen, and perverted by Glory in Tough Love. Speaking of which, check out clockwork_hart1 tribute fic to Tara's bravery and sacrifice in TL, "Shadows and Light". (Read it now and thank me later.)

Extremely useful for obvious reasons, and cute besides. Everyone needs a "huh"? or WTF? icon.

Do I really need another image from "Showtime"? Probably not. But it's useful for "fierce and determined" (as opposed to "extremely pissed off"). Buffy's the hand: when she sets out to get something done, shit gets done.
Also useful for "I have a lot of love for S7 despite the flaws";  "I actually do sorta-kinda think her wounds are a little sexy even if I'm too chicken-shit to admit it"; And of course: "Buffy is my Hero damn it! And she's the protagonist of the Buffyverse! Ergo it is my sworn duty to remind fandom of this fact every once in a while." (Believe me now and thank me later.)

Which leaves me with:

I know, sweetie, I know - it hurts me too. *sobs quietly* But it's the icon I probably use the least, and comlodge 's original artwork will always have pride of place on my Welcome post. (Don't mind me, I'll be all righ...*curls up in fetal position and sobs loudly*)

Comments

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I've read that someone pointed out the subtext to Joss and he decided to tone it down, or that Sarah and Eliza really played up the attraction esp re: Bad Girls.

As I understand it, Joss originally intended for there to be no sexual element to the relationship: more of a sibling-rivalry kind of thing. But then people started coming up to him and talking about the sexual subtext, and at first he was all, "What? There's no subtext, you're imagining things". But then he sat down and watched the episodes again, and light dawned and he was, "Oh. That subtext. Oops."

Then, to his everlasting credit, he decided to leave it in and even play up to it, rather than ordering the actors and directors to take it out. In the commentary to 'Bad Girls' Doug Petrie jokes that the actors kept putting in lesbian subtext and as director he "forgot to tell them to stop" or words to that effect.

Personally, I've always seen Buffy/Faith as a trial run for Willow/Tara the following year. It's hard to remember now how controversial and daring that was back in the day; I do wonder if they looked at the reaction of the fans and (more importantly) their own network executives to Buffy/Faith hints, saw that the sky didn't fall, and decided it was safe to do a lesbian relationship storyline 'properly' and openly instead of only through subtext.

(Many years later Eliza Dushku is still making jokes about the special 'lost episode' of BtVS where Faith and Buffy hooked up.)

********

In your icon #8, it's the end of the fight scene in 'Revelations'. Buffy and Faith have just been trying to beat each other up on false pretences, when they suddenly realise Gwendolen Post (Mrs) is the real enemy.

*******

My own interpretation of the Faith~Buffy relationship is something like this:

Faith is roughly a 3 on the Kinsey scale, but it's not something she thinks about much: self-analysis isn't really her thing. But in S3 she started to fall in love with Buffy: full-on, romantic love. That terrified her, even though she didn't really understand it. Love, to her, was all based on manipulation and deceit, so what she was feeling couldn't be real. She tried to keep Buffy at arm's length while simultaneously longing for her to get closer. The resulting mixed signals left Buffy horribly confused.

Buffy, meanwhile, I'd peg as a Kinsey 1; not entirely immune to same-sex attraction but only in a minor way. In S3 she was still pretty clueless about sexuality issues, though, and I don't think the nature of Faith's feelings for her ever crossed her mind. Perhaps she sensed unconsciously that there was something unusually intense about the nature of Faith's feelings for her: and this simultaneously attracted and scared off Buffy without her realising why.

(If Faith had appeared in a later season instead, after Willow came out to Buffy and forced her to re-evaluate her thoughts on sexuality, I can imagine things going differently. But in S3 Buffy really hadn't ever had to think about such matters.)

Then came the events of 'Bad Girls' and 'Consequences', and poor messed-up Faith was confronted by the sight of Buffy pulling away from her in shock and fear, using words like 'dirty' and 'sick', and talking about turning her in to the police. I think her turning to the Mayor instead of Buffy then was to a large extent due to a feeling of personal betrayal - "love to anger turned" - though obviously compounded by the actions of the other Scoobies and Wesley.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

"What? There's no subtext, you're imagining things". But then he sat down and watched the episodes again, and light dawned and he was, "Oh. That subtext. Oops."

Oh, Joss...was his attention already wandering to other projects? I guess I shouldn't blame him too much; I was in a workshop in college about women in the movies once and they showed a clip from Friend Green Tomatoes where Idgie woos Ruth by quoting from the Book of Ruth ("Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay.") and they stare long and longingly at one another, all the litlte markers of "romantic scenario" except for any overt declarations or kisses.

And a roomful of very intelligent (presumably straight) white women DID NOT see the subtext until I pointed it out.

Personally, I've always seen Buffy/Faith as a trial run for Willow/Tara the following year. It's hard to remember now how controversial and daring that was back in the day; I do wonder if they looked at the reaction of the fans and (more importantly) their own network executives to Buffy/Faith hints, saw that the sky didn't fall, and decided it was safe to do a lesbian relationship storyline 'properly' and openly instead of only through subtext.

Probably so. Watching W/T now I am very aware of the cultural context of the day. And in some ways Buffy & Faith's rivalry is a trial run for S6's Dark Willow - women competing for the limited "prizes" and goodies (attention, power, praise, responsibility, etc) handed out sparingly by the patriarchy represented by the WC and Giles. Both emphasize the need to break out of the system (or find a way inside of it, however you want to read it.)

Also - girl fights.

I know about the outcry over the tropes in SR when Tara was killed, but I also find it interesting that the episode that most strongly hints at B/F subtext, and in which Buffy responds to Faith's encouragement to "let loose", is also the episode in which Faith accidentally kills Allen and begins to "go bad". It could be read as a much more subtle use of the "lesbianism/bisexuality = badness" trope - And I am NOT saying it's meant to be homophobic or done intentionally. We all have unexamined prejudices and cultural tropes that we're not really aware of (myself included!), Joss & Co being no exception to that.

In your icon #8, it's the end of the fight scene in 'Revelations'

Thanks!

If Faith had appeared in a later season instead, after Willow came out to Buffy and forced her to re-evaluate her thoughts on sexuality, I can imagine things going differently. But in S3 Buffy really hadn't ever had to think about such matters.

I agree. (I didn't come out until my late twenties in part because I didn't "have to think about it" when I was younger - loving women was never talked about or shown as a possibility except in terms of it being something shameful.) And of course Buffy still has strong feeling for Angel and wants to be with him. I don't tend to think in numbers on a scale because to me it's a continuum, a sliding scale, but Kinsey was the first, and he had to start somewhere.

Faith I definitely see as conflicted - so many layers to that, as Ryan (lj user=wickedbish>) spells out downthread. She envies Buffy's life, a loving mother and good home - how could she not? - and wants that for herself, to be the "#1 son" to a devoted Watcher; she wants to both "be" Buffy and "be with" Buffy. Faith literally "gets inside" Buffy in TYG/WAY (the only other person to do so is Willow in TWotW. Possibly Tara if you see that as Tara's actual spirit and not a projection in a dream.)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

messed-up Faith was confronted by the sight of Buffy pulling away from her in shock and fear, using words like 'dirty' and 'sick', and talking about turning her in to the police.

Definitely disagree on the actual events. Buffy talked about what "We need to do", and encouraged Faith to turn herself in; she tried to connect but Faith (understandably scared) denied responsibility
Buffy: Faith, we need to talk about what we're gonna do.

Faith: There's nothing to talk about. I was doing my job.

Buffy: Being a Slayer is not the same as being a killer. Faith, please don't shut me out here. Look, sooner or later, we're both gonna have to deal.

Faith: Wrong.

Buffy: We can help each other.

Faith: I don't need it.

Buffy: Yeah? Who's wrong now? Faith, you can shut off all the emotions that you want. But eventually, they're gonna find a body.

Faith: Okay, this is the last time we're gonna have this conversation, and we're not even having it now, you understand me? There is no body. I took it, weighted it, and dumped it. The body doesn't exist.

Buffy: Getting rid of the evidence doesn't make the problem go away.

Faith: It does for me.

Buffy: Faith, you don't get it. You killed a man.

Faith: No, you don't get it. I don't care!

it could be argued Buffy is negligent for NOT going to the authorities sooner. She's going against her own moral code: see "Ted" where she believes she's killed a man and takes responsibility for it. & When Buffy uses the word "dirty" it's in terms of herself as well:
Buffy: It's just, look at you, Faith. Less than twenty-four hours ago, you killed a man. A-and now it's all zip-a-dee-doo-dah? It's not *your* real face, and I know it. Look, I know what you're feeling because I'm feeling it, too.

Faith: Do you? So fill me in 'cause I'd like to hear this.

Buffy: Dirty. Like something sick creeped inside you and you can't get it out. And you keep hoping that it was just some nightmare, but it wasn't. And we are gonna have to figure out...

Faith: Is there gonna be an intermission in this?

Buffy: Just let me talk to Giles, okay? I swear...

Faith: No! We're not bringing anybody else into this. You gotta keep your head, B. This is all gonna blow over in a few days.

Buffy: And if it doesn't?

Faith: If it doesn't, they got a freighter leaving the docks at least twice a day. It ain't fancy, but it gets you gone.

Buffy: And that's it? You just live with it? You see the dead guy in your head every day for the rest of your life?

Faith: Buffy, I'm not gonna see anything. I missed the mark last night and I'm sorry about the guy. I really am! But it happens! Anyway, how many people do you think we've saved by now,
thousands? And didn't you stop the world from ending? Because in my book, that puts you and me in the plus column.

Buffy: We help people! It doesn't mean we can do whatever we want.

Faith: Why not? The guy I offed was no Gandhi. I mean, we just saw he was mixed up in dirty dealings.

Buffy: Maybe, but what if he was coming to us for help?

Faith: What if he was? You're still not seeing the big picture, B. Something made us different. We're warriors. We're built to kill.

Buffy: To kill demons! But it does not mean that we get to pass judgment on people like we're better than everybody else!

Faith: We are better! That's right, better. People need us to survive. In the balance, nobody's gonna cry over some random bystander who got caught in the crossfire.

She goes to Giles only after Willow advises it:
Buffy: I know I've kept things from you before, but....But, um, but I-I've been blowing off my classes. You know, in-in the sense of not attending. And, uh...

Faith: It's okay, Buffy. I told him.

Buffy: You told him?

Faith: I had to. He had to know what you did.

Buffy: What I did?

Faith's trying to take advantage of her knowledge, that Buffy lied about Angel's return earlier in the year. I'm not seeing the wrong here on Buffy's side. I think it weighs more heavily on the adults who fail Faith over and over again: Faith's mom being a poor parent; the WC not making sure their Slayers are taken care of; Gwen's betrayal, Giles & Wesley not handling it well, and so forth.

Now stabbing Faith in the stomach in GD? BIG WRONG. But that's another story.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

My description wasn't meant to be a condemnation of Buffy, but to explain how I think Faith saw the events; how Buffy's reactions must have looked in her eyes.

Faith is a lot more traumatised by the killing than she lets on (see her reaction when she goes back to the body; or how in 'Sanctuary' a year later she's still having PTSD-style flashbacks to it); but she's also someone who's known since childhood that if you show any weakness at all, people will take advantage of you. That's why she tells Buffy she "doesn't care". I think she's trying to convince herself of that as much as she's trying to convince Buffy. Caring is a weakness; weakness makes you vulnerable.

Note how many different stages of denial Faith goes through:

"It doesn't matter, I was just doing my job, it's no big deal."
"I can make the problem go away; there is no body, it never really happened."
"I can leave this all behind, I can skip town and keep on running."
"I'm not a bad person, I've saved thousands of lives, you can't blame me for killing him."
"He was a bad person. Maybe he deserved to die. Maybe I did a good thing by killing him."
"You and I are better than normal people. I had the right to kill him. You can't blame me."
"Maybe I can get you to take the blame for this instead of me. It was your fault."

As for Buffy pulling away from Faith... I don't think Buffy herself would describe it that way. I think she'd say she was reaching out desperately to Faith, trying to help her. But from Faith's point of view, I think she felt Buffy was betraying her.

Faith's in denial, remember. She's desperately trying to convince herself that this was no big deal, that it doesn't matter, that there'll be no consequences. Instead of Buffy agreeing with her - colluding with her denial, that is - Buffy says exactly what Faith least wants to hear. Buffy says it's a huge deal, that it's a really serious, major, important problem that is not going away and Faith has to face it.

Buffy uses the words 'dirty' and 'sick'. Yes, she doesn't actually say that Faith is dirty and sick, but rather assumes that's how Faith must be feeling. Which is probably quite true, in fact - but again, denial. What Faith desperately wants at that point is for Buffy to reassure her; shrug, tell her it's no big deal, she did nothing wrong, she shouldn't worry about it. Buffy can't do that - not least because she's in a panic herself, of course - and instead does the exact opposite.

Buffy might not specifically say she'd going to call the police herself, but she raises the matter. Again, see it from Faith's perspective: teenage runaway, high school drop-out, petty criminal, comes from a broken home; it's a fair bet she regards any form of official authority with intense suspicion. Buffy with her nice middle-class background and nice-middle class mom and nice cosy relationship with her Watcher; she has no such fears. And for Faith at that moment, in a state of panic and denial, for Buffy to start talking about them going to the police - I think it would seem like the final betrayal.

"Buffy is going to side with the authorities; given her background of course she is. It was a mistake for gutter trash like me to ever see her as an ally or a friend or a lover"

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Oh, Joss...was his attention already wandering to other projects?

In Buffy S3? It was wandering to 'Angel' the series. :) But to be fair to him, I think any creator would feel the same way when fans give an interpretation to the story you didn't put there yourself.

Thought experiment: imagine you write a story where Tara meets Spike, and they banter with each other and compare notes on Willow and Buffy, and it's a nice fluffy friendship fic. Then one of your readers leaves a comment saying, "Wow, that was so incredibly hot! I've never read Spike/Tara before, but the sexual subtext in your fic really turned me on (literally!) to that pairing! Please please write a sequel where they actually get it on together!

Would you be pleased? Or horrified? Would you stare blankly at your fic thinking, "How on earth did they see hetero subtext in this?" :)



I am NOT saying it's meant to be homophobic or done intentionally.

I do think one of the themes that runs through BtVS, that a lot of people in present-day fandom find objectionable, is the idea that "wild uncontrolled casual sex is kind of a bad thing, you know?" It's perhaps understandable in a show started in the 1990s for a US broadcast TV network aimed at teenagers, but it doesn't really fit with a modern sex-positive ideology.

So yes, in 'Bad Girls' we see Buffy flirting with Faith, and Buffy flirting with a bunch of strange guys on the dancefloor in the Bronze, and Buffy leaping on Angel and wrapping her legs around him in public, and I do think we're meant to think this is a bad thing - whereas most people in fandom are probably cheering her on! I don't think it's specifically meant to be homophobic in particular, since after all it's Angel who is shown to be made uncomfortable by her behaviour towards him, not Faith.



I don't tend to think in numbers on a scale because to me it's a continuum, a sliding scale, but Kinsey

To me, the Kinsey Scale is just a convenient shorthand. There's no reason it can't represent a continuum, with Buffy being a 0.9, Faith being a 3.4 and Willow being a 4.9 on the scale! :)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

imagine you write a story where Tara meets Spike, and they banter with each other and compare notes on Willow and Buffy, and it's a nice fluffy friendship fic.

Of course you would pick the combo I loathe with the burning passion of a thousand white-hot suns, sweetie. NEVER would I write those two together. EVER. But I do get your point in general, and of course I'm all about interpretation of the text within reason.

it doesn't really fit with a modern sex-positive ideology.

Right, it does fit with the theme of "Buffy's bad sex life" - which also demonstrates that Joss is thoroughly of his own time and a product of his upbringing, and not necessarily as "subversive" as he likes to think or as his fans claim he is (which came first, the chicken or the egg?) Is making Faith "go bad" right at the same time as the subtext comes very close to text accidental? Probably. Was it necessary? Maybe not. But it's there nonetheless, and I'd be untrue to myself and everyone if I pretended I don't notice this stuff. I also noticed what a great job he did with complex characters, etc.

whereas most people in fandom are probably cheering her on!

To do what? Get down with Faith or with Angel? I know I found her jumping on Angel like that like a little girl kind of gross, but Angel's reaction is genuinely funny and actually appropriate to the situation. She's almost behaving like someone who's slightly high or inebriated and her self-censoring mechanism is lowered.

To me, the Kinsey Scale is just a convenient shorthand. There's no reason it can't represent a continuum, with Buffy being a 0.9, Faith being a 3.4 and Willow being a 4.9 on the scale! :)

*giggles*

:) srlsly, that sounds a bit like the butch-femme scale - I was in a lesbian group in the '90's and it was a 1-10 thing, 1 being very femme, 5 being perfectly androgynous, and EVERYBODY wanted to be as close to that as possible like it was some holdover of the perfect lesbian-feminist ideal of gender erasure; I was a little disappointed that I was rated a 2 or 3 - and I knew damn well I'm quite femme. I wore skirts and long hair! (Adding combat boots did not make me more "butch". It's something you are or are not.)