"Welcome to the Hellmouth" / "Bring on The Night"

[red_satin_doll]

"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *

***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **

* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie

Comments

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Around mid-S2, I think the super short skirts disappeared, perhaps right around the time contract extensions were signed. I shudder to think how uncomfortable filming the fight scenes in NKABOTFD must have been. That "dress" was really just a long shirt.

S7 was probably my favorite for Buffy fashion. S6, I liked too and the latter half of S5. The first half had some unfortunate choices. *cough*The Replacement*cough*

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

NABOTFD

I'm not even going to try to remember what that stands for - but the garment you describe sounds familiar.

The first half had some unfortunate choices. *cough*The Replacement*cough*

This was also the period of Buffy's pink trousers in BvsD; then there was that pink satin shirt she wore after Riley left her. Yikes. Of course the first half of the season also had Riley, which is why I don't rewatch it very often.

Basically I agree with you about S5-7 esp regards Buffy; when blackfrancine described Buffy as "elegant" this is the period I'm thinking of.

BTW - have you ever seen The Bitter Buffalo's "Buffy Fashion Roulette"? It's very amusing.
http://msjacks.wordpress.com/tag/buffy-fashion-roulette/page/2/

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

It's supposed to be Never Kill a Boy... Dunno what happened to the K.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh duh! I kept trying to search my memory for that one. That actually is one of the more forgettable episodes. Not bad, just not memorable. but then again I think IRYJ, Beer Bad and Doublemeat Palace and Him are way underrated. so what would I know?

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Beer Bad, DMP and Him are very underrated. I can get why one would dislike Him, but the level of hate they get I don't know. All are very rewatchable for me, as opposed to Gingerbread and other S2 or S3 eps. Not that I think those are bad eps, either, but you know what I mean.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I can get why one would dislike Him, but the level of hate they get I don't know.

They were all lessons for me and very early signs that I was NOT a part of "mainstream fandom" - which sent me landing here in LJ and this part of fandom. Even still, those are not loved episodes.

I remember at another LJ site with a feminist, Spuffy late-seasons slant, people HATED him or specifically they hated the part where Buffy mounted RJ while bespelled because of the consent issues etc. And I felt like a bad feminist or something and really embarrassed because I thought that sequence was funny, so I should have "known" it wasn't. then I went back to rewatch and - nope, I still find it funny. The dubious consent was the point - there was no question that RJ had put a spell on Buffy; and Buffy behaving somewhat like Buffybot is always funny. Or "This is a classroom you chowderhead!" "His physical presence has a penis!" I'm smiling just thinking about it. it's my go-to episode for laughs And at the same time it references so many other episodes and turns their personal issues upside down as well as digs up buried dynamics - the AR, the Xander/Spike relationship, Willow's magic issues and her and Anya's rivalry. Buffy's devious behavior contributing to Dawn's later distrust. Xander being an adult now instead of the picked-on geek. Buffy's relationships referenced by Dawn's use of "it is real" and "it would be true, forever".

Beer Bad - Cave Buffy! Who foreshadows the First Slayer and Buffy in Bargaining2 (watch the scene in the bar in BB when the bar is burning down, and Buffy wandering the streets after she's been resurrected). Parker knocked on the head twice, and Willow likewise giving Parker a verbal smackdown! All to the good. And Doublemeat Palace is an incisive portrait of the dead-end service work that has been the single largest growing sector of the economy (in terms of number of jobs created) in the US since the 1990's. I've worked in retail (rather than fast food) but so much of it is the same.

I need to do an "underrated episodes" post. Maybe a few of them.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Him makes some people uncomfortable because the cheerleading tryout is kind of hard to watch, which I can understand. And of course the consent issues--there were numerous discussions about whether or not they were having sex, which I do not think we're meant to believe they were. Even if I don't agree, I can *get* why they'd dislike that. But it's got great stuff, too, as I think it's actually meant to mock the Bangelesque romance crap and show Buffy had grown up quite a bit. Even under the spell, Buffy was able to break through and save Dawn the great speech about how no guy is worth your life, which has ties to Chosen. I think it's a much better and deeper ep than BB&B, which I've seen among the favorites listed, usually.

Yes, DMP has a penis monster, but it's not like it's the first one in BTVS. I mean, paging Reptile Boy? Plus it lacks the whole blaming the girls who got drugged at a party and almost fed to said monster for going to the party to begin with angle.

BGF once wrote a wonderful defense of Beer Bad. You've probably read it so no need to rehash.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

But it's got great stuff, too, as I think it's actually meant to mock the Bangelesque romance crap and show Buffy had grown up quite a bit.,

YES, this, exactly! I also know that a lot of people don't like Buffy's speech to Dawn about Spike, (I have no idea about your feelings on this, so here goes, I hope I don't offend) but I loved that Dawn raised the question, and linked it explicitly to Xander's behavior and Buffy handled it with some amount of grace (how do you talk about that with your little sister?) So again, touching on series-long themes. And Buffy gets Spike out of the basement and Xander may be reluctant but he lets him live with him. Out of loyalty to Buffy (and to make up for being an ass in S6) but the snark between him and Spike hides a genuine brotherly affection, IMO. (Just as there's a lot going on beneath the surface of Buffy and Spike's snarkiness earlier on.)

Even under the spell, Buffy was able to break through and save Dawn the great speech about how no guy is worth your life, which has ties to Chosen. I think it's a much better and deeper ep than BB&B

The callbacks to other eps are so numerous I can't begin to count, but BB&B is almost the least of it - and yes, a much better episode. The Buffy/Dawn interactions are great here as well; I love the sisterly relationship between them so much. But I'm one of those outliers who thinks Dawn is often pretty damn awesome.

Plus it lacks the whole blaming the girls who got drugged at a party and almost fed to said monster for going to the party to begin with angle.

Yet another episode I've willfully suppressed. ;)

And BGF's meta on Beer Bad is one of my favorites.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

There's also the "go to your closet" line, which is pitch-perfect delivery. I kind of like Greenberg's eps, except EP which I loved before the revision.

Plus on a shallow level, I think everyone, boys and girls, looks ridiculously pretty in Him.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

There's also the "go to your closet" line, which is pitch-perfect delivery.

YES. She's awkward and bossy at the same time - or rather, falling back on "bossy" to cover the awkwardness. The fact that she blames herself for her own visceral reaction when he touches her is also kind of poignant and sad, but then there's that funny line, and on we go.

except EP which I loved before the revision.

Which version is the shooting script on buffyworld - I haven't read it - , and who did the revision?

I love SMG's bangs hair in that ep so much it's ridiculous btw.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

There was a pretty big rewrite from the leaked shooting script to what was shot. I guess I can see why they did it because as forgiving as Buffy can be, it would have been hard to believe Buffy would go back to them after that. It's brutal, but I think it's actually a little more in character for the Scoobies--but then I've always been somewhat of a minority in thinking they weren't OOC to side with Giles over Buffy.

I don't know who did the revision. I'm guessing Joss or Marti. Seems like the last part of the season got a tonal shift. The Spike/Faith fight scene in Touched is a little different in the script too. I kind of think they were trying to make Faith more likeable to set up the potential spinoff.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I love Him and Doublemeatpalace :) I always find it odd that DMP is so frequently picked out as being one of the worst Buffy episodes ever, I thought it brilliantly captured the monotomy of working minimum wage, while still being funny and entertaining. But then there's never been a Jane Espensen episode I haven't liked, I also have a real fondness for I Was Made To Love You and Triangle which seem to be very unpopular episodes of hers?

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I don't recall much about "triangle" but it had one of Spike's best ever lines - maybe one of the best in the entire series? "I'm paralyzed with not caring very much." I've actually used that one in RL (ok, in my head but still...) I do think that Olaf is rather ridiculous in the way that a lot of people seem to find the cave fratboys in BB (which don't bother me so much); and there's the "ick" factor of Willow and Anya being in "competition" so to speak for Xander, for his affection and time if not as rival lovers. (XANDER? And Willow and Cordy compete for him in S2-3; if Xander represent Joss, then that's a total nerd boy wet-dream.)

And total agreement on DMP - the bs motivational posters, the interview, the sterile break room, the lowered hopes and diminished dreams, etc - been there, done that, will probably have to again. I think my "favorite" moments in that workplace are actually in DT (Tara visiting Buffy) and NA - the shot of Buffy "sleepwalking" to the fryer is harrowing, because "demon poison" aside, that numbness is very true to life. (And I'd think it be damned dangerous in that setting.)

IWMTLY is one I have to watch again. I was looking at the screencaps and astonished to see how happy Buffy is for most of it; I'd forgotten that. Riley's dumped her but she's coping, she's moving on, enjoying her friends, flirting with Ben, etc (At the time I still didn't realize that should have been my big screaming red flag that something horrible was going to happen.) I remembered loving Joyce going on a date - they remembered she was an adult woman and a sexual human being, yay! - and modeling for her daughters as my mom used to in front of me. I love the progression in Buffy's feelings about her mom's sexuality from Ted (although Joyce's dress is almost identical in both); Buffy and Joyce relate to one another in a more adult fashion - and yet actually hearing about it is still another story altogether. (I love Kristine Sutherland so much in that ep.) then there's the first time we see Warren and Katrina, Spike approaching him to build a bot - this episode resonates through the story for a long time to come. And it leads to The Body and what I consider the point of no return for Buffy. (I didn't realize I had so many FEELINGS about this ep!)

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

IWMTLY is a great ep. I tend to think all the good stuff in it--the big build-up to Buffy's "Yuh-huh" about the robot--gets overshadowed by the final scene.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I tend to think all the good stuff in it--the big build-up to Buffy's "Yuh-huh" about the robot--gets overshadowed by the final scene.

Absolutely. I do need to watch it again - the look on Buffy's face when Joyce talks about the dessert cart is priceless.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I didn't mind the pink leather (pleather?) pants in BvsD. It had a nice top to it as opposed to the dyed pants and tank top made from the carpet of a 70's Chevy van thing going on in The Replacement. As far as I'm concerned, Riley bought it for her and she wore it out of obligation.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You actually sent me back to Netflix and - oh boy I forgot about those pants! Actually I'll go out on a limb and say it's something Willow picked out, as she and Tara wear a good bit of it. (maybe willow picks out tara's clothes as well? This could get really creepy...)

Although nothing will ever beat Willow's "red elmo pelt top" for badness.

I have no idea how this became a Buffy fashion thread but it makes me giggle.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Ha, I like that even better. 100x more plausible than Riley, who I don't see buying her clothes or her wearing them*. I now pronounce it canon.

*Obvious exceptions pertaining to their private life, of course.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

100x more plausible than Riley, who I don't see buying her clothes or her wearing them*. I now pronounce it canon.

:) Of course it's canon.

Riley was so nervous about approaching Buffy he had to have Willow as a duenna of sorts; so I don't see him buying her clothes or even thinking to do so. If asked advice he'd be the guy to say "whatever, hon, you look great in anything."

On the subject of Riley though, I do find it odd that someone as handsome as he is is so - virginal. I don't mean literal virgin (I have no idea on that) and I guess it's supposed to contrast with Parker (and Angel) and reinforce the notion of Riley as the corn-fed Iowa boy, but I still wonder how a guy, particularly one as handsome as he is, can have gotten to that age and still be absolutely clueless about women and dating. Or maybe I'm stereotyping him myself based on looks.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I've never given much thought about Riley, but yeah, in S4 he is kind of naive in many ways regarding women. Could be because of his military background and not being around them very much.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

But presumably there was high school before that right? I guess with Riley, I'm not sure the writers cared enough to even bother about that, so we're sort of forced to fanwank to put the pieces together. What about him is the truth and what isn't? We never know; we learn a lot about Angel and Spike's backstories, even if what we get is retconned at times, but the only thing we know about Riley's past is what he tells Buffy in SB; a very appealing Normal Rockwell picture, but true or not? I think we're meant to see it that way, but then he doesn't ever contact his family in S5, he becomes unsettled pretty easily, implying that his past isn't as stable and rosy as it may seem (maybe?) and....I'm way overthinking this, aren't I?

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Riley strikes me as the kind of dude who's life was military. Probably he went to an academy.

I'm way overthinking this, aren't I?

Oh, probably. :P I think with Riley, it's the same as Angel, only Riley never got to the point where they had to get into his backstory too much. They wanted the normal guy thrust into Buffy's world. I've seen the criticism of S4 that it's too much about Riley in some ways, which I'd agree with. There's more "How's Riley deal with this" rather than how Buffy deals with it.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Riley strikes me as the kind of dude who's life was military. Probably he went to an academy.

Oh that never occurred to me. Makes sense though.

I do think that Riley and Angel are actually quite similar but I don't think that's an odd opinion? they share a certain patronizing attitude "there there silly girl you don't know your own mind" etc. I do see Riley as a plot device more than a character in a lot of ways tbh.

There's more "How's Riley deal with this" rather than how Buffy deals with it.

I don't remember thinking that in S4 so much but in S5 it was almost unbearable to me, from the first time they started with shots of Riley with puppy dog eyes - poor widdle boy, Buffy didn't read your mind, blah blah - and that honestly pissed me off pretty quickly because I could tell exactly what the writers WANTED me to think, but I wasn't buying.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

...Now look what you did to my muse.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

*SNORFLE* (This is the first time I've even been able to think about that damned uniform without wanting to cry.)

Oh and btw- fuck you, Riley Finn, and the helicopter you rode in on.