Potential Rupert Giles Prompt Puppy (don't say "bunny" or Anya will freak, 'kay?)

[red_satin_doll]

ETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap

Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading  the episode notes for WTTH  by 2maggie2

In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them.  (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).

(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)

Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series.  There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else.  All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).

And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.

So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles.  So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction.  I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept.  If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.

So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.

ETA: beer_good_foamy  and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below,  "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.)  Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act.  It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.

** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)

Posted on Dreamwidth http://red-satin-doll.dreamwidth.org/11747.html

Comments

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oops, sorry!

AR: Attempted Rape in Seeing Red (SR)

ILY: I love you (referred to re: buffy's statement at the end of Chosen)

And I didn't include it but Spike's reply is often typed as NYDBTFSY. (I generally just shorthand it as "No you don't...." Even I have my limits when it comes to acronyms. *LOL*)

I've never seen any of Ash Carpenter's stories (I don't think I've ever heard of them actually so thank you!)

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Ah, so we're talking about Spike trying to rape Buffy and then their relationship and that she said "I love you" afterwards. So the AR was before he went and got himself resouled. I haven't seen the latter episodes as often and am not as up on that part of the series.

Word of warning: Ash's stories are heavily into non-con / rape. If that's not your thing, give them a go. I mentioned them as an example of where my Giles fic might go. I'll possibly write that one but I'm also thinking of writing another where he's a more BtVS type Big Bad. I'm just not sure how that one's going to work yet.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Hmm, non-con/rape are exactly the sorts of things I tend to avoid in fic, along with smut (graphic sex scenes), unless it's a writer I really really like - actually, unless it's snowpuppies pretty much. In her stories horror is meant to be horrifying and not titillating; her re-write of Innocence, for instance. So thanks for the warning.

Of course the irony is that I love Btvs which is FILLED with bodily/consent violations, and I can ship Buffy/Spike and even Buffy/Faith to a lesser degree - and OH how I love the parallels there - despite the violations that occur. I think it has to do partly with context and presentation? Faith's rape of Buffy's body, and later Riley, are taken seriously as bad things, as is SR or Warren/Katrina; or the demon taking over Jenny's body in The Dark Age; most of Willow's spells, etc. Whereas a lot of fanfic I come across tries to present it as erotic; or when Joss/ME presents it as a joke (the Hyena, Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered, the spacefrak of S8; although weirdly enough I love the episode Him. So, go figure.)

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

I had an inkling that you might not go for the non-con/rape which is why I rushed over to warn you. A few of my stories on AO3 go there but there are big AO3 warnings for rape/non-con so they should be easy to avoid. For some reason I'm drawn to non-con - both reading and writing - when I'm stressed.

One of the things I'm most drawn to with the darker side of fiction is the sense of betrayal. I'm not sure how that ties in but it's the idea of being made to change, to become something you're not and quite possibly wouldn't want to be. I don't know if this will make any sense or not - it's hard for me to put into words - but it's tied to work where I see people changing themselves by taking night classes but they are turning themselves into better employees rather than better humans/people.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

One of the things I'm most drawn to with the darker side of fiction is the sense of betrayal. I'm not sure how that ties in but it's the idea of being made to change, to become something you're not and quite possibly wouldn't want to be. I don't know if this will make any sense or not - it's hard for me to put into words - but it's tied to work where I see people changing themselves by taking night classes but they are turning themselves into better employees rather than better humans/people.

Oh that is definitely an interesting idea.

If we stick to the Buffyverse, then any instance of someone being vamped is a metaphorical cause of either dub-con or non-con: the only person on btvs who wanted to willingly be vamped and knew what they were signing up for was Ford in Lie to Me. No one else that we see gave full "consent"; and the whole mythology of the Slayer is that of violation. that was true even before "Get it Done" (get it done actually made the situation worse, not better, with the symbolism of black men gang-raping a white woman. Oh christ on a crumpet, Joss. the harder you try the harder you fail.)

So I get why people are uncomfortable with the Slayer Spell and it's implications. It's hard to escape - but then how much of what happens in life is "dubious consent" at best? We give in because we think we should/think we have to/think we have no other options, just like the people in the continuing ed classes.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And you explained that much more clearly than I ever could.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh good! I'd I wasn't getting things wrong. :)