Potential Rupert Giles Prompt Puppy (don't say "bunny" or Anya will freak, 'kay?)

[red_satin_doll]

ETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap

Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading  the episode notes for WTTH  by 2maggie2

In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them.  (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).

(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)

Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series.  There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else.  All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).

And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.

So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles.  So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction.  I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept.  If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.

So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.

ETA: beer_good_foamy  and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below,  "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.)  Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act.  It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.

** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)

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Comments

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

Giles does go behind Buffy's back to attempt to kill Spike - that is getting pretty dark. I think that decision was rooted in his earler murder of Ben. Ben wasn't killed for what he had done but for the fear s/he might do more. Pre-emptive murder is pretty dark.

And to lecture Buffy on being a general while at the same time taking her power to lead away from her seems - at best not well thought out.

Worst of all, he and Wood are stupid enough to collude in attempting to do exactly what the First wants them to do.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

And to lecture Buffy on being a general while at the same time taking her power to lead away from her seems - at best not well thought out.

Not thought out by the writers or by Giles? I think a case could be made for a bit of both.

Someone on an AV Club convo thread summed up S7 thusly: "Brilliant ideas, shoddy execution". I think that later part is actually a bit harsh in some respects: a lot of it is clumsily mishandled but there are some real high points that get overlooked. And that scene in LMPTM and the entire Giles/Buffy dynamic in S7 fascinates me enough that I'm willing to overlook (most, not all) of the flaws in delivery. He's come back to town after a long absence, having abandoned his duty as her Watcher in S6 without any awareness that she's changed since he left in S6. He dumps more responsibility in her lap, then lectures her that she's not responsible enough; tells her she needs to be a real leader, a general when he himself has very little idea what that means. He's a tutor, a teacher and guide, not a warrior; he can't teach her how to be a military commander. In some ways Spike is right that she's "surpassed" him, although I interpret that a bit differently than I think Spike meant (or at least the statement is vague enough for a little wiggle room); I see it as the simple fact that he no longer is equipped to help and serve Buffy in the ways she really needs him to now; he only has his old patterns and training to fall back on. It goes right back to Buffy's dismissal of him in WTTH, except she actually needed him then and didn't know it yet; now she wants him there but not in the ways he thinks she should need him.

It then makes sense to me on one level that he then choses (the theme of the season) Faith over Buffy, and I'll ignore the mishandling of it because we all know about that. The scene between Faith and Giles in which he tells her she's doing a good job as the new leader is a mirror of the Buffy/Giles scene in First Date. Suddenly Faith is the one who is inexperienced and insecure as "The Slayer/General" who looks to Giles' approval as both a father-figure and a Watcher. Buffy had rebuffed his advice in the matching scene in First Date confident that her instincts were correct.

And not to say that Giles' argument in First Date was without merit; he had cause to be concerned but the weight of their shared and individual histories charges the air in the room (and how much do I love that scene in First Date? A whole hell of a lot.) Their "ghost lovers" Jenny and Angel, the events of S2 are just "there" without either one of them having to mention it; he lays out rational, intellectual arguments and she tries to match him in the same vein, proving how much she actually has learned from him.

And I hope I'm sounding like I'm Giles-bashing because I don't mean to do that at all. The Buffy/Giles dynamic is just so fascinationg to me. YOu just me going on all sorts of thinky-thoughts.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I adore Giles - I really do. I can see part of what you're saying. He left, and in his mind (as usually happens to all of us) the people he left behind stayed the way they were when he left. Also - and I don't think this is given enough weight - he had to be in mourning for some of the people who died in the explosion as well as all of the knowledge destroyed.

Then he was met by people who were radically different than the ones he left. Spike and Buffy now had a healthy relationship - Xander and Anya did not. Willow he had kept close to, Tara was dead. So, at the same time he was tellin Buffy to lead, he was also trying to direct her, in essence trying to usurp the very power he was insisting that she take.

I don't know who appeared to Giles as the First but I suspect it had to be Jenny - which would have brought back all the fears of Buffy sleeping with a vampire. Or even getting close to one. Powerful - but if Spike could withstand the torture he went through, well Giles is smart enough to know when he is being used. Wood had less experience in the area, and he wouldn't have had the chance to go after Spike if Giles wasn't part of that scheme.

Part of the issue was the fact that Spike was now the first person Buffy went to for advice, for comfort and to watch her back. The more Giles fixated on Spike being THE PROBLEM, the more he was unable to assess the realities around him.

I thnk that Buffy valued Spike because he valued her ability as the Slayer. Whatever Buffy said was right, and whatever the First said was the opposite of what should be done. He was willing to trust her absolutely and follow her with no equivication. Given the stresses she was dealing with, that attitude had to be an oasis.

And I think Spike was right - the First had created enough tension that the others couldn't even see the real problem. She had surpassed Giles, and no matter how much he tried to wind her back, to become what he once was to her, he couldn't do it. The more adament and critical he became, the more she pushed him away. Killing Spike seemed like a way to get his primary position back - and he had never liked Spike so he didn't see it as much of a loss personally.

Overall we agree, I think. But even after his murder plan was thwarted, Giles was still arrogant enough to believe that he was the one who should be in charge with Buffy carrying out his plans or at least consulting him every step of the way. But Buffy had changed - ironically enough in the very ways he had wanted her to change when he left her.

The fact that he was no longer willing to trust her or follow her was part of the whole mutiny that put Faith in power. I don't think it was a coincedence that the blow up came when Spike had been sent away. I think that subconciouly Giles had seen an opportunity to get a slayer willing to value his advice, to lean on him, and to do what he wanted.