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red_satin_dollETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap
Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading the episode notes for WTTH by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
2maggie2
In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them. (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).
Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series. There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else. All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).
And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.
So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles. So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction. I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept. If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.
So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.
ETA:beer_good_foamy and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below, "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.) Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act. It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.
** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)
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Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading the episode notes for WTTH by
2maggie2In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them. (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).
(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)
Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series. There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else. All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).
And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.
So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles. So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction. I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept. If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.
So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.
ETA:
beer_good_foamy and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below, "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.) Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act. It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)
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Date: 2013-02-07 11:09 am (UTC)I don't know if I need permission to quote a bit but here goes -
[When Giles opened his eyes, he was laying on the floor of Spike's crypt, wrapped in chains, and Spike was on the other side of the room with a loaded crossbow aimed at him.
"So, you're awake," Spike said.
"I feel very odd. Why are you pointing that at me? You can't use it on me."
"I will if you're not reasonable."
Giles looked at him curiously. "You act like you're worried about me. Good." He frowned. "My face feels odd."
"I'd show you a mirror, but it wouldn't help."
"What happened?"
"What happened is I have to have some very serious words with Dru about what she dumps into my crypt when I'm not home and she's in a pissy mood."]
It takes place after Dru's visit in season 5 - Giles gets sired by Dru. When he suggests he get his soul back Spike tells him "Oh, get your soul back, hm? Doesn't get rid of the demon, you know, just makes it even more schizophrenic. From what I hear, Angel was just a big handsome lunk running through his daddy's money on drink and women. Nothing too complicated, average guy, meaning no real harm. But you, Rupert, what kind of soul would you be getting back? Average likeable lout? Or a sorcerer who's made a study of darkness, something more than a little hard and ruthless. Something comfortable in the company of a guy named Ripper." He nodded at the look on Giles face. "Your soul and your demon might have more to chat about than you want to think of, mate."
My spoilers are all from the first page and it is a long many chaptered, pretty intricate fic. Giles is not only a kickass vampire - he's also a master of dark magics and has no compunctions against using them.
You might also want to check out Love that Dares - http://www.lovethatdares.com/ - What Lies Within. Willow does a spell that has Giles and Spike switching bodies, and she show realistically what would happen if Gile merged into his demon. It also has some great scooby stuff.
I am going to bookmark this discussion so I can come back and read all these stories.
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Date: 2013-02-08 05:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-09 09:51 am (UTC)You have taken the first step, grasshopper.
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Date: 2013-02-09 08:59 pm (UTC)I really like the title (subtitle?) of snowpuppies' journal: "Read the fic, not the 'ship."
I'll have to do more posts with some of my favorite fics. this discussion has really been fun, I didn't expect so much response to it!