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red_satin_dollETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap
Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading the episode notes for WTTH by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
2maggie2
In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them. (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).
Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series. There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else. All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).
And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.
So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles. So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction. I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept. If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.
So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.
ETA:beer_good_foamy and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below, "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.) Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act. It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.
** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)
Posted on Dreamwidth http://red-satin-doll.dreamwidth.org/11747.html
Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading the episode notes for WTTH by
2maggie2In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them. (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).
(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)
Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series. There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else. All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).
And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.
So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles. So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction. I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept. If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.
So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.
ETA:
beer_good_foamy and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below, "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.) Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act. It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)
Posted on Dreamwidth http://red-satin-doll.dreamwidth.org/11747.html
no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 11:06 pm (UTC)Someday when I retire I will read all the BtVS fic I can get my hands on. Unless, by that time, the internet has evolved into something too newfangled for my aged brain to navigate. :-)
I think, if Giles were to become the Big Bad, it would be because he was so certain he was Right and Knew Best. Like in LMPTM. Not because he was possessed, or out of loss the way Willow went dark in S6, or because Giles just snapped. It would be the badness of the man who feels privileged to make decisions for other people, because he believed his (genuine) superior knowledge and experience gave him that right.
That attitude must always have been a real danger for Giles, surrounded by teenagers and young adults who really were thoughtless and impulsive much of the time.
Side note: Eee, I'd never seen that parallel between the two balcony scenes! I'd been uncomfortable in the WTTH one, thinking it was weird that Giles would stand so close to a young girl he barely knew. But even though I've watched the series through several times, I didn't tie the scene in Dead Things back to the WTTH one. Now I kinda want to start the whole series again. :-)
no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 12:29 am (UTC)I read too much as it is - unemployment is a dangerous thing. (Idol hands and all that.)
Total YES on your thoughts about Giles, although the one time we truly see him snap on the show is in Passions, and understandably, crazed with grief and rage but without backup or adequate weapons. It's an interesting mirror to S6, when Willow is similarly crazed, and Giles comes in to stop her, this time with backup from the Coven.
I mentioned LMPTM and First Date upthread a bit so I'll try not to repeat the same comments, but the changed dynamic between Buffy and Giles in S7 fascinates me. In First Date he's in his best "Rational & Logical Watcher" mode, and she counters in the same manner (parry and thrust). One thing I know is that when we learn from our teachers we tend to imitate them until we've processed the lessons and can evolve our own ideas and methods, and I think that's a lot of what's going on there - among a lot of other things. (I could analyze that one scene in First Date all day.)
That attitude must always have been a real danger for Giles, surrounded by teenagers and young adults who really were thoughtless and impulsive much of the time.
Interesting point, I hadn't ever thought of that! Must ponder.
Now I kinda want to start the whole series again. :-)
So do I - reading Maggie's episode notes has sort of been fantastic because there is so much I missed the first time, and the early seasons are so much richer than I even remember. At some point I'll do a proper watch.
And yes, that scene in Dead Things? *chills* And part of what makes is interesting is how much Buffy is changed from one to the other; WTTH starts kind of creepy but Buffy is always in control of the dialogue between her and Giles, confident she knows her job, and how to spot vamps, etc. Her heart hasn't been torn asunder yet.