Canon-related questions for Buffyologists
Dec. 31st, 2012 08:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
red_satin_dollThere's a couple of items about Buffy Summers that I've seen in several fanfics and wondered if they were "canon" or "fanon" information. I don't trust my memory, especially when I've probably spent more hours at this point reading fanfiction than actually watching the show. (What that says about me I shudder to imagine.)
By "canon", I am of course referring to BtVS, seasons 1-7 only, not the comics (aka Get behind me, Satan!)
By "canon", I am of course referring to BtVS, seasons 1-7 only, not the comics (aka Get behind me, Satan!)
1) Is Buffy's given name "Buffy" or "Elizabeth"? I've read "Elizabeth Anne Summers" used in several fanfics and it feels like it might have been mentioned somewhere in S1-3 on the show, if at all?
Actually, I just wanted an excuse to post this screencap. But while you're here:
2) Does Buffy refer to herself in third person at any other point on the show except for Life Serial: "stupid Buffy" "freak Buffy"? A lot of stories have her refer to herself in this way, usually when she's berating herself, although generally not while drunk. (For someone who can't hold her liquor she seems to drink quite a lot of it in LS. Slayer metabolism, apparently.)
Also, she generally does so whilst kicking herself mentally over something regarding Spike, so do early season/Bangel 'ship writers have her referring to herself in this manner as well?
Also, she generally does so whilst kicking herself mentally over something regarding Spike, so do early season/Bangel 'ship writers have her referring to herself in this manner as well?
No, no further questions; I just love SMG in this episode so damn much I can hardly stand it. I mean - come on, Giles, how can you resist that face? Buttons and puppies are weeping in envy. Now do your duty to your Slayer and hand her the check without making her feel like it's an act of charity on your part.
I love Giles, I do. But damn it, he can be an ass sometimes.
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Date: 2013-01-01 02:36 am (UTC)Buffy may have referred to herself in the third person in other episodes - I honestly don't remember. I'm pretty sure I would remember if it had happened consistently. Fandom has a habit of taking stuff which happened once and making a Thing out of it. Be glad you missed the vanilla craze. *g*
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Date: 2013-01-01 08:11 pm (UTC)I forgot to ad in the post that this was slightly inspired by
Be glad you missed the vanilla craze. *g*
You mean the stories where Spike notices that Buffy always smells like vanilla? I've seen some of those and wondered why that scent got repeated more than any other. And I really don't think that "vanilla" would turn Spike on (probably too sweet for his super vampire sense of smell); but her natural muskiness and sweat probably would. (And how bad is it that I've actually thought about this?)
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Date: 2013-01-01 08:35 pm (UTC)I have heard that the vanilla thing came about because in one early-season interview, SMG mentioned something about liking vanilla-scented bath products, and fandom latched on to that like a crazed latching thing. However, that was before my time, and I've never seen the supposed interview, so I have no idea if that's the real story or not.
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Date: 2013-01-01 08:45 pm (UTC)I think I may have seen something that somebody said via somebody else that referred to that interview. The fic "LIving Conditions", on the other hand, makes mention of Spike noticing her coconut-scented shampoo, so I guess we've passed the vanilla phase but, again: sweet, edible, kind of icky if it's not the real thing.
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Date: 2013-01-01 09:23 pm (UTC)Let me love you!!
I didn't know about this vanilla thing and SMG's choices for bath products. But, to be honest, even in my little headcanon Buffy smells sweet and sometimes I mention it in my fics. I've always imagined that Buffy likes girly and sweet smelling bath products, so I go from vanilla to peaches. Something sweet and yummy. And also sweat, of course, since she fights a lot. I don't think I'm stuck with this idea, but I definetly imagine her scent like that.
(Also, I kinda picture Buffy covered in vanilla cream and peaches. ME LIKES)
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Date: 2013-01-02 04:47 pm (UTC)Corrupter of innocent minds, you are. Besides - ice cream would be kind of uncomfortable Strawberries and whipped cream works nicely, even if it's sort of cliche. But, you didn't hear me say that.
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Date: 2013-01-02 09:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-03 12:00 am (UTC)That's "homemade" in English, right? I used to make my own whipping cream but starting about ten years ago I noticed my throat would clog up when I ate any so I had to stop using it.
Strawberries is the official taste of Willow!
That was Rack who said it, wasn't it? In Wrecked? Ok, am I the only one who thought that Rack was sort of gross BUT the scene where he moves in on Willow seductively and then the close up when he whispers "you taste of strawberries" was actually kind of scary/sexy?
My partner and I used to use "strawberries" as a codeword/injoke for "making love" when we were first together. (I should be blushing right now. And I am.)
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Date: 2013-01-03 12:18 am (UTC)Aaawwhh, that's sweet!
Thanks for the grammar advice! I feel so stupid when I make this mistakes! And, yes, I totally think that the scene with Rack was sexy. I mean, he was a creep, but that particular scene was all kind of sexy.
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Date: 2013-01-03 12:36 am (UTC)It was - we were in that honeymoon phase, and we used it with our best friends, another lesbian couple. And then one day several years later my sweetie said "I don't like to combine food and sex." WHAT??? That was the pin that popped my balloon.
Thanks for the grammar advice!
Grammar advice? You mean "homemade"? Oh that's not a mistake, I enjoy looking up unfamiliar words! Don't feel stupid - you enlarged my vocabulary.
that particular scene was all kind of sexy.
I think it was the close-up that did it, but also AH playing Willow as almost trembling, nervous and fascinated; and anyway Ally seems to have effortless chemistry with almost anyone she's onscreen with, even now in How I Met Your Mother, where it's often suggested that Lily is bi-curious if not bisexual. (Maybe she's just something of a free spirit in real life? She did play a character in American Pie, I've read, who used a flute in an *ahem* unconventional manner.)
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Date: 2013-01-03 01:49 am (UTC)Oh God, your girlfriend ruined the Foodporn scenario! XD But I think that the strawberries reference was all kind of sweet. Strawberries are cute and tasty!
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Date: 2013-02-07 06:42 pm (UTC)Jumping in a month later...
This is an interview Aly gave to FHM magazine back in 2003, which may answer your question: :)
The end of season five featured a lesbian love scene between you and Amber Benson. Come clean : Was that your first same-sex experience ?
In college I probably kissed a couple of girls or something.
'Probably'? That means you did.
Well, it wasn’t a life-altering experience. It was more of a party thing and it wasn’t that memorable.
...
When was the last time you watched a dirty movie ?
I got satellite TV and wanted all the movie channels, so I called up DirecTV. They can see what you’re watching, and the service guy was this sweet, polite Southerner. I clicked to a channel and it was a hardcore penetration scene. He was mortified. It was hilarious.
Have you ever had sex on the Buffy set ?
No. Some of the other crew members have, but I’m not saying who.
What is the definition of handfasting ?
Handfasting ? I have no idea. It sounds like something you do with a man’s unit.
Close. It’s a Wiccan wedding ceremony.
Oops.
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Date: 2013-01-03 03:22 pm (UTC)Word.
I do think Buffy probably smells of nice bath products when she's not sweaty, mostly because this fits her character overall and I think she references bath products a few times but I don't remember a specific smell being referenced.
But what does her sweat smell like? Probably good, given the way people react to her positively when she's been dancing or slaying, but we're not given any specifics. The other Buffy smell canon is, of course, Doublemeat Palace-related.
It is canon that Anya thinks Spike smells good. I think that we can infer that vampires have good pheremones or something. If you seduce people by giving them your coat to wear, that's the obvious implication.
Oh, and regarding the main topic, early in Season 5 she asks her mother (following Dawn being called "li'l punkin belly") if she ever had a nickname like that, and her mom says, "no, you were always just 'Buffy.'" I think that makes it pretty clear that Buffy is NOT a nickname, coming straight from the character who would know best.
My partner and I used to use "strawberries" as a codeword/injoke for "making love" when we were first together
I used "watching Doctor Who" with my first boyfriend, but I think I was the only one who thought it was funny. This was pre-Buffy.
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Date: 2013-01-01 11:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-02 01:54 am (UTC)(Not that it makes sense to have him scarfing it every single fic, but. Rationales, I has them.)
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Date: 2013-01-02 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-02 08:54 pm (UTC)Is that a thing? I hadn't noticed outside of the occasional holiday fics. And I think on the show it was Joyce who made and offered it the one time on - I don't actually remember the ep or the season.
I do remember the one thing that Angel pigged out on in IWRY was chocolate ice cream, in bed with Buffy. (Hmm, maybe Kikimay was on to something upthread.)
So in order to enjoy the maximum yumminess of chocolate, Spike has to have it hot, or at least warm. Hence hot chocolate!
Works for me.
I have heard that the vanilla thing came about because in one early-season interview, SMG mentioned something about liking vanilla-scented bath products, and fandom latched on to that like a crazed latching thing.
Back to the fragrance thing, I just read SAFIDY by Rabid1st on EF, whom
http://dark-solace.org/elysian/viewstory.php?sid=1392
Never again would he catch a signature scent on the air. Dawn, he remembered, smelled something like the taste of roasted sunflower seeds. Or rather that aroma lingered under the obligatory chemical camouflage of modern femininity. He certainly didn't miss gagging over nearly lethal combinations of sport deodorant and perfumed body wash. Chalk one up for the less sensitive nose; he could tolerate fragrance, even up close and personal.
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Date: 2013-01-02 09:36 pm (UTC)Which is a big difference between Spike and Angel; Angel is indifferent to food as a vampire, while Spike is on record as enjoying several things. OTOH, it's notable that when the old guy took over Angel's body in that one episode, he ate Mexican food and appeared to enjoy it, so I have a suspicion that a lot of Angel's food-indifference is psychological rather than based on a physical inability to taste things as a vampire.
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Date: 2013-01-03 12:21 am (UTC)Spike and marshmallows! *w* We should totally make a topic about Buffyverse and Foodporn. Delicious!
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Date: 2013-01-03 12:48 am (UTC)Well it'd be a kind of short topic; the characters don't eat very often (on btvs anyway) given that we spend essentially seven years with them. As someone who loves to cook and eat I know I'm very aware of that. But hey, go for it! On some levels, Spike is the most food-oriented (i.e. pleasure-oriented) character on the show.
I've read an interesting essay/thesis on the Slayage Journal online identifying the consumption of bespelled/drugged foods in Ted and Band Candy by Joyce and/or Giles, as a metaphor for drug useage by their generation, leading to selfish pleasure and neglect of parental duties. (I don't agree with it 100% but it's interesting in light of the subject matter.)
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Date: 2013-01-03 01:37 am (UTC)I don't know if I agree totally. I mean, Joyce seems very careless in the first seasons, watching so little for Buffy, but "the whole generation" thingy seems a bad generalization. Also, the parenting model changed. In Victorian/First decades of 900 time was much more severe and authoritarian while today we can talk with our parents in a different way. I don't think that this is negleting something. (I'm sorry, maybe I'm going widly Off Topic.)
About the foodporn: you know, I didn't mean it like how much they eat. They eat a little, especially Buffy. (Btw, there is a Tumblr "What Buffy eats" that shows images of the Slayer with the food in all the episodes and seasons. And Buffy eats a little.) I wanted to play a game of associations (For example Buffy= vanilla) since it seems popular to associate certain characters with particular tastes and flavors. I'm doing it tomorrow, tired now.
Spike should be covered in Nutella (The brand name of a chocolate hazelnut spread. Very delicious) And I'm totally serious about it! *grins*
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Date: 2013-01-03 12:26 am (UTC)I haven't seen that ep you're referring to, but that's an interesting point to ponder. Angel on btvs at least seems to be very much about self-abnegation; very dramatically so in the 100 years before he first saw Buffy, but even after that, his surroundings are very sparse and spartan, even though the artwork, and so forth imply sophistication, elegance and therefore a certain income level - and the same is true of his wardrobe on the show. Simple but not inexpensive. (HOW he makes his money before AtS is a whole 'nuther conversation.)
Whereas Spike seems to be coded as being lower-class financially compared to Angel (watches tv, smokes, drinks beer, dresses punk etc) but he does enjoy sensual pleasures like food, spices, cigarettes.Not unlike friends of mine (and myself, admittedly) who say, life is short and my budget is limited so why waste money on shitty beer, food etc?
If Angel's indifference is psychological as you say, that would make sense given that (from what I've seen in Becoming, so my knowledge is limited), he was a wastrel, the son of a monied family who frequented gambling dens and whorehouses, and constantly chased sensual pleasures? Whereas William came from an upper-middle class family, as far as I can tell from FFL/LMPTM (certainly a very comfortable middle-class existence) but I didn't get the impression of him as someone then who "indulged" himself, if that makes sense?
I wasn't really clear in the early seasons of Btvs with Angel if vamps couldn't taste food or were completely indifferent to it; I'm assuming that with Spike they made things up as they went along, sometimes just for the humor, sometimes to differentiate him from Angel. I think the comedy aspect played a big part of it at first (S4): "Don't I get a cookie?"
Oddly, I think on that level Buffy becomes more like on some level Angel as the show went on in terms of self-abnegation (denial of pleasure/self-care - somebody make her sit down and eat a sandwich already!), as well as the simplicity of her wardrobe, plain but not inexpensive looking. (Again, a whole 'nuther meta post.) I haven't seen enough of AtS to comment on how Angel evolves in that regard.
Stopping now....
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Date: 2013-01-03 04:39 am (UTC)