I just saw it and commented - I thought perhaps you had me in mind! (Or I really am that self-centered esp when it comes to Buffy. *lol*)
"Angel" is definitely one of the ones I recommend from S1 if folks have to pick and choose - there's the need to protect Joyce, the mirror image of Buffy in Darla, his first love and maybe his real "true love"? The one who kicked him out and I'd say he never really got over. (and you'd never guess from that ep that she has a very important role down the line in AtS) That's one of the stunning things about the show, and about S1 - EVERYTHING starts in S1. All the seeds are planted there, no matter how silly or inconsequential the episodes.
And yes I admit I shipped Buffy with Angel at the time, of course I did. She loved him I wanted her to be happy and who doesn't want a happy ending, deep down? I was not yet savvy to the ways of Joss.
Methinks a rewatch is in order. My dear friend Kendra is slowly watching S1 eps and telling me about her reactions - such fun to talk about. She fell in love with Buffy in WTTH - it took me a lot longer than that to actually fall in love with her!
I'm not sure what I think of Buffy. I never really got into the celebrated BTVS is a fore runner of celebrating that a woman can be the strong one because Joss so often just turned the tables and made the men - even the vampires, the weak one and for me, you do not make someone strong by making someone else weak. But that is a whole other conversation.
I have to say that when all is said and done I wanted Buffy to be with Captain Cardboard - or someone else who could give her kids. I know, it's nature talking. Survival of the race. And I have no idea how that fits in because I was never actually into breeding myself, though we do have a son. But apparently something is hard wired in there. lol.
Joss LOVES to tear characters down. Absolutely loves it.
My friend Kendra is watching Season 1 for the first time and LOVES Buffy, and HATES Angel and Xander, but she says that she thinks Joss got better at writing men in later series like Firefly and Dollhouse, which she has seen. Perhaps you would like those series better? IDK
I certainly don't think that Joss is some feminist paragon - there are too many regressive messages, especiallly about female sexuality. He's actually a little afraid of women, I think; and so he has to tear them down (Rapes, mystical pregnancies, death etc)
Joss is into tearing characters down, big time, regardless of gender, and no one gets torn down (dies twice - three times actually) and humiliated (loss of social and economic status, loss of parents, etc) more often than Buffy. I don't know if you saw Dead Man's Party in Season 3 - Empty Places is a repeat of that, ganging up on Buffy but without kicking her out of the house. She cries, she is often weak, she needs support - I don't see her as this ball-buster.
In fact, one of the most painful things about the series, for me, is watching Buffy gradually lose the bright confidence she seemed to walk in the door of Sunnydale with in WTTH. She becomes far less confident - and ironically that's the point when I began to love her and identify with her. And I hate what that says about me.
But I know a lot of people don't care about Buffy or even acknowledge her as the protagonist of the show, so I guess they wouldn't be fussed about that?
Then the comics - UGH. I won't even.
There's poor Cordelia, who also loses social and financial status, is cheated on by Xander, is impaled for god sake, leaves btvs to become a really interesting character in her own right, on ats only to have her body taken over by an evil entity, give birth in a mystical pregnancy and end up in a coma. Fred is killed, Darla stakes herself, there are no major female characters left by the AtS.
Then there's Willow and Tara in btvs - two women, but Tara's obvious power and ability in S4 is somehow "downgraded" to make Willow the more powerful person in the pairing. The show almost forgets about Tara's power at times. Then she leaves Willow, becomes a more confident person, a "total woman", goes back to Willow and is killed. Or Anya, abandoned by her "demon" father, and by her fiancee and left adrift, etc.
But apparently something is hard wired in there.
I guess. Once a decade I've had a hormonal surge and a sudden crazy urge to give birth or to nurse a child - and then I take a walk and it goes away immediately and I feel much better. (NOT because I'm a lesbian btw - I've known far too many lesbian mothers to believe that stereotype!)
I wanted Buffy to be with Captain Cardboard - or someone else who could give her kids. I know, it's nature talking.
Interesting *(hides shovel)* Seriously, I liked him for a time and shipped them together in S4, although I ignored the warning signs ("Doomed"). I gues when I was watching I shipped Buffy with whoever she loved and wanted to be with at the given moment. I just wanted her to be happy. But then I would have shipped her with Robin Wood at the beginning of S7 - sexy, cool, and he actually took her out to a nice restaurant, how often did that happen in the series? (It wasn't even Spike that squashed that for me it was the You remind me of my mother line in Get it Done. No thanks *lol*)
As for Riley, I think it could have worked in theory if they'd been willing to go to couples' counseling. And he learned that cheating on your partner is NOT an acceptable way to get their attention. *lol* (That's not what they teach in Iowa - is it?) I really would be curious as to how he would react if something happened after he married Sam - she was promoted, he was injured and couldn't work etc. I don't get the sense that he ever worked on his issues, just sort of retreated and regressed to his old self.
As for kids, given that she and Faith are now the grand matriarchs of the new Slayers, can you imagine Joyce reacting to all these "granddaughters"? There has GOT to be some great, funny AU fanfic in that idea, I swear. (Maybe I can get clockwork_hart1 to write it? *ponders*)
I didn't mean to imply that he doesn't tear his girls up. He does indeed get into everyone and makes them all quite human and I really think that's why we love the show - we can identify. And sometimes validate and sometimes feel better about a weakness because one of our heroes went through it.
As for Riley, I should have mentioned that I was so not into the whole vamp bite thing and I didn't see that as stepping out on Buffy, so much as a drug type problem. Riley did not get developed much but the whole man in charge, taking care thing, So not required these days when physical strength takes a back seat to other strengths and men are changing because of it. And so are women. It's a slow process. But I really thought that Riley/Buffy was a crack at that whole paradigm because it was and is so very topical and part of the whole 'female no longer the victim thing'.
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2014-03-04 08:56 pm (UTC)"Angel" is definitely one of the ones I recommend from S1 if folks have to pick and choose - there's the need to protect Joyce, the mirror image of Buffy in Darla, his first love and maybe his real "true love"? The one who kicked him out and I'd say he never really got over. (and you'd never guess from that ep that she has a very important role down the line in AtS) That's one of the stunning things about the show, and about S1 - EVERYTHING starts in S1. All the seeds are planted there, no matter how silly or inconsequential the episodes.
And yes I admit I shipped Buffy with Angel at the time, of course I did. She loved him I wanted her to be happy and who doesn't want a happy ending, deep down? I was not yet savvy to the ways of Joss.
Methinks a rewatch is in order. My dear friend Kendra is slowly watching S1 eps and telling me about her reactions - such fun to talk about. She fell in love with Buffy in WTTH - it took me a lot longer than that to actually fall in love with her!
no subject
Date: 2014-03-04 09:19 pm (UTC)I have to say that when all is said and done I wanted Buffy to be with Captain Cardboard - or someone else who could give her kids. I know, it's nature talking. Survival of the race. And I have no idea how that fits in because I was never actually into breeding myself, though we do have a son. But apparently something is hard wired in there. lol.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-05 06:16 pm (UTC)My friend Kendra is watching Season 1 for the first time and LOVES Buffy, and HATES Angel and Xander, but she says that she thinks Joss got better at writing men in later series like Firefly and Dollhouse, which she has seen. Perhaps you would like those series better? IDK
I certainly don't think that Joss is some feminist paragon - there are too many regressive messages, especiallly about female sexuality. He's actually a little afraid of women, I think; and so he has to tear them down (Rapes, mystical pregnancies, death etc)
Joss is into tearing characters down, big time, regardless of gender, and no one gets torn down (dies twice - three times actually) and humiliated (loss of social and economic status, loss of parents, etc) more often than Buffy. I don't know if you saw Dead Man's Party in Season 3 - Empty Places is a repeat of that, ganging up on Buffy but without kicking her out of the house. She cries, she is often weak, she needs support - I don't see her as this ball-buster.
In fact, one of the most painful things about the series, for me, is watching Buffy gradually lose the bright confidence she seemed to walk in the door of Sunnydale with in WTTH. She becomes far less confident - and ironically that's the point when I began to love her and identify with her. And I hate what that says about me.
But I know a lot of people don't care about Buffy or even acknowledge her as the protagonist of the show, so I guess they wouldn't be fussed about that?
Then the comics - UGH. I won't even.
There's poor Cordelia, who also loses social and financial status, is cheated on by Xander, is impaled for god sake, leaves btvs to become a really interesting character in her own right, on ats only to have her body taken over by an evil entity, give birth in a mystical pregnancy and end up in a coma. Fred is killed, Darla stakes herself, there are no major female characters left by the AtS.
Then there's Willow and Tara in btvs - two women, but Tara's obvious power and ability in S4 is somehow "downgraded" to make Willow the more powerful person in the pairing. The show almost forgets about Tara's power at times. Then she leaves Willow, becomes a more confident person, a "total woman", goes back to Willow and is killed. Or Anya, abandoned by her "demon" father, and by her fiancee and left adrift, etc.
But apparently something is hard wired in there.
I guess. Once a decade I've had a hormonal surge and a sudden crazy urge to give birth or to nurse a child - and then I take a walk and it goes away immediately and I feel much better. (NOT because I'm a lesbian btw - I've known far too many lesbian mothers to believe that stereotype!)
I wanted Buffy to be with Captain Cardboard - or someone else who could give her kids. I know, it's nature talking.
Interesting *(hides shovel)* Seriously, I liked him for a time and shipped them together in S4, although I ignored the warning signs ("Doomed"). I gues when I was watching I shipped Buffy with whoever she loved and wanted to be with at the given moment. I just wanted her to be happy. But then I would have shipped her with Robin Wood at the beginning of S7 - sexy, cool, and he actually took her out to a nice restaurant, how often did that happen in the series? (It wasn't even Spike that squashed that for me it was the You remind me of my mother line in Get it Done. No thanks *lol*)
As for Riley, I think it could have worked in theory if they'd been willing to go to couples' counseling. And he learned that cheating on your partner is NOT an acceptable way to get their attention. *lol* (That's not what they teach in Iowa - is it?) I really would be curious as to how he would react if something happened after he married Sam - she was promoted, he was injured and couldn't work etc. I don't get the sense that he ever worked on his issues, just sort of retreated and regressed to his old self.
As for kids, given that she and Faith are now the grand matriarchs of the new Slayers, can you imagine Joyce reacting to all these "granddaughters"? There has GOT to be some great, funny AU fanfic in that idea, I swear. (Maybe I can get
no subject
Date: 2014-03-05 08:54 pm (UTC)As for Riley, I should have mentioned that I was so not into the whole vamp bite thing and I didn't see that as stepping out on Buffy, so much as a drug type problem. Riley did not get developed much but the whole man in charge, taking care thing, So not required these days when physical strength takes a back seat to other strengths and men are changing because of it. And so are women. It's a slow process. But I really thought that Riley/Buffy was a crack at that whole paradigm because it was and is so very topical and part of the whole 'female no longer the victim thing'.