Voting Now Open for Icon Challenge 162 at Otherworldlyric

[red_satin_doll]

http://otherworldlyric.livejournal.com/222404.html

What it says on the tin - vote now for your favorite entries in the challenge contest (link above because I'm away from home and this PC hates me *grrr*). And then check out challenge 163 now up. I may have to enter that one as well because I'm having way too much fun with this; and the song lyrics the mods choose have endless possible uses.

I'm eager to see which icon win - and in fact I don't care if I win because I'm genuinely pleased with the icon sets I did for this challenge and I can't wait to share them with y'all.

In other news - a friend told me this morning that Ellen Page, self-proclaimed "little Canadian", just came out of the closet. Which, no surprise to me (my dyke detector was off the charts when I saw her in Juno) but I'm still tickled lavender because it's still a risky thing to do, even if more states in the US and more countries around the world have gay marriage laws. (Spain? Uruguay? SRSLY?) Things really are getting better but in terms of discrimination and prejudice we're not all the way there by a long shot.

Kudos to eilowyn btw for turning me on to Ellen's fierce feminist politics and humor a few months back.

Comments

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was completely unsurprised by Ellen Page coming out. Hopefully, she won't get a hard time for it. Isn't it about time people stop caring who other people love? I mean, seriously. Why is gay marriage a problem? It's not like only a finite number of marriages are allowed and straight people have to worry about gay couples snagging all the spots in the quota or anything. Why does it bother people? Same goes with people being gay in the first place. Why does it enrage people? I honestly don't get it.


Gabrielle

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

And every time I think you can't possibly get more awesome than you already are....

It's not like only a finite number of marriages are allowed and straight people have to worry about gay couples snagging all the spots in the quota or anything.

This is BRILLIANT.

To be honest, I have NO IDEA why it bothers people, aside from religious prejudices. I don't get it either and I've been out as a lesbian at least 20+ years.

I have a friend who is Christian, a wonderful, open-hearted woman who is savvy about socioecomic and racial injustice, wanted Al gore to run for president again, etc etc...and who says she is ok with the idea of "civil unions" but not full marriage. And can't give a logical reason for it beyond discomfort.

Well, newsflash, boys and girls - if a hetereosexual couple get married in the United States, that IS a CIVIL UNION. It's a union recognized by the state (as opposed to just the church). Period and end of sentence.

And yet she loves me as a friend; and my sweetie's very conservative Christian sister and brother in law have been nothing but loving and welcoming to me.

When it comes from people who are admittedly very conservative or reactionary it's one thing; at least I know where I stand. And sometimes those folks can be surprisingly open minded in conversation (and sometimes not.) But when it's supposedly "liberal" folks who behave as if gay people have "cooties" and don't want us invading their treehouse (and yes I include Bill Clinton and Barack Obama in that) then I have no idea how to process that. AT. ALL.

The idea that "gay marriage" will destroy the institution is laughable. The divorce rate in this country is what, close to 50%? Straight people seem to be destroying it just fine all on their own.

I highly recommend ozma914's (mark fields) "Straight Talk on Gay Marriage" which is one of the best things I've seen on the subject from a very sensible libetarian perspective. (I'm not libetarian myself but Mark's opinion makes so much sense, and that's what is lacking from those who are homophobic - plain common sense.)
http://ozma914.livejournal.com/609081.html

[kikimay]

I'm happy for Ellen Page. I think it was awesome what she did and her speech was very inspiring. But I didn't figure out anything - my detector didn't buzz XD - and I was kinda puzzled when she was rumored lesbian just because she wore comfortable clothes or went out to see sport teams. I mean, what is the general idea about heterosexual women, that they wore high heels and just watch romances?

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, my dyke detector has gone off at women who wear makeup and heels. Hell, I still have long hair and wear jewelry and long skirts. (Makeup and heels not so much anymore.) I loved confounding people in college because they were shocked that I was a lesbian because I didn't look like one.

It's really a sort of intangible thing, an intuitive sense about somebody, you know? Conversely, some of the most "butch" women I've ever met in my life have been married self-identified heterosexual women. It should be noted however that nearly every lesbian I have ever met over the age of 40 at one time identified as straight because of societal pressures and the lack of awareness that there was such as thing as "lesbianism."

So, it can be confusing and I make mistakes esp with women because yes, we are more "fluid" in our sexuality than men in many instances. And it's more ok for us to be "androgynous" than it is for men - to a degree. Just not TOO masculine (think of Maggie Walsh in btvs - if she's not coded "butch" then I'll eat my hatpin.)

In this case I just had a feeling about Ellen I can't quantify.

With celebrities and people in the public eye, an additional clue is a lack of a partner, mention of a boyfriend or girlfriend etc (look how long the media has maintained a discreet silence about Jodie Foster's partner, or Lily Tomlin's.) Most celebrities are hounded about who they are dating, who they are married to, etc etc - the media love that stuff.

When I was in my teens I was watching an episode of Oprah with Johnny Mathis, who was a famed singer of romantic ballads for decades by that time. And not once did she ask him about a partner, spouse etc. Whereas when she had Tom Cruise on a few weeks earlier she grilled him very hard about his new wife Nicole Kidman, really poking to get information. And I realized that Mathis was gay.

It's a double-edged sword because our silence does not in reality make us safe.

[lynnenne]

Ellen Page and I are from the same city, and although I've never met her personally, we do have some friends in common. We've all known for years that she's gay, so to me it was like, "She came out? I thought she did that ages ago!"

[kikimay]

Maybe because people who know her personally also know who she's dating or things like that? I don't read gossip and I didn't know much about Ellen Page, except that she was an awesome feminist (And that's because Tumblr gifs XD) so I really didn't have a clue about her sexuality and I also didn't care enough to know. (I really think that we should respect celebrities' privacy)

The detector thing sometimes works for me, but especially with men. I don't know, I'm more intuitive about them. I think that it's true that women have a more fluid sexuality and also it's confusing because of society standards. We're supposed to look "feminine" to attract men but I also know many heterosexual women who are more "masculine", I guess, and still prefer men. Also we can mix things much more easily these days: a woman can cut her hair really short and still look very feminine. (In my case I have really short hair but I like to wear skirts. XD)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

(I really think that we should respect celebrities' privacy)

Sure - except when they use their own private life as PR to hawk their projects. But we're not talking about helicopters flying over a private event or peeping in the bushes anyway. This is about the line between privacy and "secrecy", which implies something shameful, that must be hidden away. We still treat people - and relationships - differently based on orientation.

the fact that ellen has to "come out", that the concept still exists at all, says a lot. there's still a lot in invested in actors and celebrities to hide who they are.

The only way to fight it is to keep saying it, keep speaking out, keep demanding legal and social parity until the idea of "coming out" no longer even exists.

Also we can mix things much more easily these days: a woman can cut her hair really short and still look very feminine.

Oh yeah, definitely. We can wear masculine things because masculinity is the preferred mode of being; it's ok to have masculine trappings but not be too masculine (butch). OTOH men wearing make-up, skirts, etc is still a big no-no because feminity still carries the taint of being shameful or "less than". I love mixing it up myself but if I were a man it would be almost impossible except in private (secret).

[kikimay]

I agree. I think we should generally respect other people's privacy. When it comes to famous people I find kind of irritating the some fans' behaviour (Like when they want to know everything about their favourite actor/actress/whatever and so they bitch about their idol's love interests, like: "I don't believe that bitch is so lucky to be with *insert name* It's too good for her!" Like they actually even know the person behind the persona!) I guess it's okay in wanting to know some trivia or being curious, but there is still something that should be private. (But I also think so because I'm a very private person and I understand the need to keep things for myself)

Different thing is what Ellen Page did and I think it's important to speak so openly and bravely about homosexuality, especially in a society that still censures it.
Also true about men wearing feminine things/make up. Some people are still making a big deal about pink shirts! Because true men are nothing like women. ù_ù

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

(Like when they want to know everything about their favourite actor/actress/whatever and so they bitch about their idol's love interests, like: "I don't believe that bitch is so lucky to be with *insert name* It's too good for her!" Like they actually even know the person behind the persona!)

Ten years ago I was a mod on a forum/board for a fan of a celebrity who got remarried and HOLY SWEET POTATOES - not so much on our board (we monitored it very carefully) but in the general fandom there was an incredible amount of "how dare he marry her!" All of it coming from women I may add. Like YOU ever had a chance with him, lady? *shakes head*

But there is this insatiable need to be "intimate" with our idols - to possess them, but also to feel elevated by them somehow. Perhaps on some level we're using them to fill the hole left by the belief in gods. But we forget they are human beings who fuck up like everyone else and have the same wants and needs as the rest of us.

I think it's important to speak so openly and bravely about homosexuality, especially in a society that still censures it.
Also true about men wearing feminine things/make up. Some people are still making a big deal about pink shirts! Because true men are nothing like women.

Just YES to every word of this.

[kikimay]

But there is this insatiable need to be "intimate" with our idols - to possess them, but also to feel elevated by them somehow. Perhaps on some level we're using them to fill the hole left by the belief in gods. But we forget they are human beings who fuck up like everyone else and have the same wants and needs as the rest of us.

Very wise. I also think it's true because we treat these celebrities like heroes from the myths.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I also think it's true because we treat these celebrities like heroes from the myths.

Yes. We NEED heros, we need stories, we need to share our stories - but we also need to be part of something larger than ourselves. It's a human need, it's in our hardwiring.

And this can be a very healthy impulse - to help, to share, to build, to fight for social justice, to hold someone when they cry or need someone to lean on, to celebrate as a community, etc. But it can also be very unhealthy, as the obsession with celebrities shows - the feeling that one is "less than" & "worth less" but the feeling can somehow be mitigated through a celebrity.

And there's the fact that in our culture today, people are considered "worth less" unless we are rich, famous successful - we're losers. Do we believe that in our hearts? Not really, but the message is conveyed over and over. That if you're poor, if your unemployed, if you don't have the world at your feet, then YOU DIDN'T TRY HARD ENOUGH. So somehow those who "made it" must possess some magic, and if only we can get a little of it to rub off on ourselves.

I also suspect there's an addiction aspect. I have friends who are fans of a particular male country singer and they go to all of his concerts, meet him in person at every chance. And these are healthy, well-adjusted people but there is something so powerfully magnetic about that singer. I suspect that celebrities are both sponges and mirrors - they soak up all the attention (energy) they receive, and the ones who can handle it well shine the power and attention (energy) back outward.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

We've all known for years that she's gay, so to me it was like, "She came out? I thought she did that ages ago!"

Is it dumb to say I think it's cool you have friends in common?

I guess when someone is a "celebrity" there might be different levels of "coming out" - just as for any of us, really. Coming out to closest friends and family, coming out to coworkers, to strangers etc. Even after I came out in my mid-twenties, it was still something I had to think about with every interaction, esp while I lived in North Carolina. Now twenty years later? Pffft - I'm here, I'm queer, get over yourself. Age has it's advantages.

[lynnenne]

Hahaha, well, it's not like I rub elbows with celebrities or anything on a regular basis. I just happen to know an above-average number of local actors and film industry types because I used to work in TV news. The community in Halifax is really small.

Age has it's advantages.

It certainly does. The older we get, the more comfortable we become with not giving a fuck, about anything. :)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

The older we get, the more comfortable we become with not giving a fuck, about anything. :)

Nail, head.

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

Aw, thanks for the recommendation! I hope I can count on your support in the primaries. (Kidding!)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

This is not the worst idea I've ever heard. Would you consider Anya Jenkins as your running mate or head of finance? If we get a button maker this could be a thing.

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely Anya for head of finance! And Faith will be my ... enforcer.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oooh that sounds dangerous - and intriguing.

(Buffy will be Chief of Defense, of course.)

[ozma914.livejournal.com]

Of course! And Giles will run the Department of Education.

[snogged.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that Ellen Page came out of the closet. I'm proud of her.

I also voted at otherworldlyric. Good luck!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

It's funny, when I was in my twenties I was grumpy about folks who came out after they became famous and now I'm all "Yay!" and tossing confetti. I think seeing what Ellen DeGeneres went through changed my thinking.

Also, Ellen is just a nifty woman and I'm proud to call her family, so good on her! (And she's like the cutest lesbian ever, so...)

Thank you for voting over there and the good wishes!

(ETA: I changed my mind and voted anyway, just before the voting ended.)

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I was totally surprised about Ellen, but I was still surprisingly emotional about it because she's of my generation and I grew up watching her movies.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Now I feel OLD. *LOL*

I think I've seen four of her movies? Juno, Whip It, Wilby Wonderful and Marion Bridge. I think in the last one she played a "sexually promiscuous" teenager with an alcoholic adopted mom and she played the drama of the mother-daughter interactions BEAUTIFULLY - and I didn't believe her for a second when she was flirting with a guy from her class.

So I didn't watch her movies thinking "lesbian" but just "hmmm, there's a certain something - she might be family."