Canon-related questions for Buffyologists

[red_satin_doll]

There's a couple of items about Buffy Summers that I've seen in several fanfics and wondered if they were "canon" or "fanon" information. I don't trust my memory, especially when I've probably spent more hours at this point reading fanfiction than actually watching the show. (What that says about me I shudder to imagine.)



By "canon", I am of course referring to BtVS, seasons 1-7 only, not the comics (aka Get behind me, Satan!)

1) Is Buffy's given name "Buffy" or "Elizabeth"?  I've read "Elizabeth Anne Summers" used in several fanfics and it feels like it might have been mentioned somewhere in S1-3 on the show, if at all?

Actually, I just wanted an excuse to post this screencap. But while you're here:

2) Does Buffy refer to herself in third person at any other point on the show except for Life Serial: "stupid Buffy" "freak Buffy"?  A lot of stories have her refer to herself in this way, usually when she's berating herself, although generally not while drunk. (For someone who can't hold her liquor she seems to drink quite a lot of it in LS. Slayer metabolism, apparently.) 

Also, she generally does so whilst kicking herself mentally over something regarding Spike, so do early season/Bangel 'ship writers have her referring to herself in this manner as well?

No, no further questions; I just love SMG in this episode so damn much I can hardly stand it. I mean - come on, Giles, how can you resist that face? Buttons and puppies are weeping in envy.  Now do your duty to your Slayer and hand her the check without making her feel like it's an act of charity on your part. 


I love Giles, I do. But damn it, he can be an ass sometimes.

Comments

[pickamix.livejournal.com]

No I didn't make it ... valyssia made it. I do make icons from time to time, but I've never made a Buffy icon. If you want to snag it, just credit Val and I know she wouldn't mind.

I understand that historic AUs would probably need her to be named Elizabeth because Buffy back then was just a nickname. But in any modern piece it is just wrong.

I don't read Spuffy so I wouldn't notice those things. I've written one Spuffy fic and that was my intro in the BtVS fanfic and since then it has all been Spillow and Wangel and various other rare ships. I only really like Spuffy on the show. That is way more than enough for me. I don't like seeing them in romantic twists, they weren't a romantic pair. Buffy used Spike and then threw him away and then used him some more. I think the love there was all one-sided and rather obsessive and dark. I like that type of thing but all the Spuffy fics I see are romantic dribble that turns them into fools and that to me is just not them.

The point of that rant was to simply say ... I'll take your word for it because I'll never find out for myself because I don't read them.

By the bye ... I took the quote from "The Prom" straight from the transcripts from BuffyWorld. It is verbatim what she says to Angel when they see each other at the butcher's shop. I looked it up to be sure.

I'm the biggest Buffy nerd there is ... if you ever have a question about show canon ... so long as it occurs while the shows were on the air ... I pretty much know all. I didn't watch that many interviews, but I've been watching Buffy since the beginning and I never missed an episode. I've rewatched the series and Angel more times than I can remember and I know lines off by heart and quote them often. I know the show backward and forward. If I don't know the answer, I will before I get back to you, because it will bother me if I don't.

But despite my recent poll about Spuffy ethics ... I don't ship them really ... unless I am watching the show ... and then I can't get enough of that broken and messed up relationship. I love me some broken couples. Don't worry ... I'm getting help for this. ;P

*hugs and love*

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I think I have another one of her icons on my harddrive somewhere, thanks. I actually have more icons than I have space for on my LJ (free account so I only get 15.)

I don't like seeing them in romantic twists, they weren't a romantic pair. Buffy used Spike and then threw him away and then used him some more. I think the love there was all one-sided and rather obsessive and dark. I like that type of thing but all the Spuffy fics I see are romantic dribble that turns them into fools and that to me is just not them.

Oh boy..

I'm going to agree to disagree a little - or maybe we don't really disagree at all except in terms of semantics? I loved S6, love Buffy and Spike in S6-7 for all it's darkness and pain and even moments of tenderness. I don't need them to be the "perfect romantic couple" that's not the point (I explain a bit more in my comments below, hopefully). but I will say that IMO the relationship is very much a mutually-abusive one and they are pretty equal on almost every level in that respect. He uses her (for sex, for companionship, for status, for protection, for money, for the thrill of it; to reach toward the light but not be alone in the dark); she uses him and around and around it goes. There is so much self-hate and delusion coming from both of them that almost anything I say of Buffy in that relationship is true of Spike as well. I like the_royal_anna's term for them then, "identity hijack": "it's need bleeding into need..."

And I really do appreciate their journey in S7 more and more; what they have really doesn't match any cultural template for how a relationship "should" be, which is pretty true of RL I think. We get a lot of warped ideas about love and romance from our culture and mass media, which both Buffy and Spike carry around and it damages both of them terribly But maybe I like them best as friends, companions, and as two perfectly-matched warriors?

I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, BTW! I'm always happy to talk about late seasons but I know how fraught and sensitive it can be.

I don't ship them really ... unless I am watching the show ... and then I can't get enough of that broken and messed up relationship. I love me some broken couples. Don't worry ... I'm getting help for this. ;P

Eh, romance is overrated anyway. And "in love" is a phase, a chemical attraction; actual "love" on a deeper level to me is more interesting because it's genuine work, and it's not necessarily pretty. In fact, it rarely is.

It's interesting to me how a lot of "Spuffy" fics read like reworkings of the Bangel relationship and "forever/true love" with all the ribbons and bow; but then other people prefer evil Spike; conversely some Bangel fics (admittedly I've read very few) are as dark and twisted as Spuffy in S6 ever was. There are even people who 'ship "Bangelus". Ok, not my thing, but the point is, whatever I can find in one 'shipping faction I find in another. It's like the meta spuffy_luvr linked to said, "people are all the same". And we want what we want. So we can disagree about our preferences but getting into arguements and wars over it seems silly. Besides, to me the point of the show is Buffy allowing herself to "love" (and I don't mean romantically necessarily; that included loving her friends and herself, and loving enough to let go); that she doesn't "need" a man in order to be strong or complete.

[pickamix.livejournal.com]

You should take my Spuffy ethics poll. I'd like to see your answers. I won't tell you mine though ... not yet. You may just have to wait until I write the meta that comes after this poll. I plan on breaking down the relationship of Spike and Buffy bit by bit and analyzing it. I'm such a nerd. But I think it is worth doing.

I get that talking about anything when it comes to Spuffy or Bangel can get sensitive and I'm like a sledge hammer when it comes to that stuff, so if I hit a sore spot ... I apologize.

I'll tell you what I think about Spuffy some other time. Take the poll so I can add your opinion in. I think you have an interesting viewpoint.

*hugs and love*