Joss LOVES to tear characters down. Absolutely loves it.

My friend Kendra is watching Season 1 for the first time and LOVES Buffy, and HATES Angel and Xander, but she says that she thinks Joss got better at writing men in later series like Firefly and Dollhouse, which she has seen. Perhaps you would like those series better? IDK

I certainly don't think that Joss is some feminist paragon - there are too many regressive messages, especiallly about female sexuality. He's actually a little afraid of women, I think; and so he has to tear them down (Rapes, mystical pregnancies, death etc)

Joss is into tearing characters down, big time, regardless of gender, and no one gets torn down (dies twice - three times actually) and humiliated (loss of social and economic status, loss of parents, etc) more often than Buffy. I don't know if you saw Dead Man's Party in Season 3 - Empty Places is a repeat of that, ganging up on Buffy but without kicking her out of the house. She cries, she is often weak, she needs support - I don't see her as this ball-buster.

In fact, one of the most painful things about the series, for me, is watching Buffy gradually lose the bright confidence she seemed to walk in the door of Sunnydale with in WTTH. She becomes far less confident - and ironically that's the point when I began to love her and identify with her. And I hate what that says about me.

But I know a lot of people don't care about Buffy or even acknowledge her as the protagonist of the show, so I guess they wouldn't be fussed about that?

Then the comics - UGH. I won't even.

There's poor Cordelia, who also loses social and financial status, is cheated on by Xander, is impaled for god sake, leaves btvs to become a really interesting character in her own right, on ats only to have her body taken over by an evil entity, give birth in a mystical pregnancy and end up in a coma. Fred is killed, Darla stakes herself, there are no major female characters left by the AtS.

Then there's Willow and Tara in btvs - two women, but Tara's obvious power and ability in S4 is somehow "downgraded" to make Willow the more powerful person in the pairing. The show almost forgets about Tara's power at times. Then she leaves Willow, becomes a more confident person, a "total woman", goes back to Willow and is killed. Or Anya, abandoned by her "demon" father, and by her fiancee and left adrift, etc.

But apparently something is hard wired in there.

I guess. Once a decade I've had a hormonal surge and a sudden crazy urge to give birth or to nurse a child - and then I take a walk and it goes away immediately and I feel much better. (NOT because I'm a lesbian btw - I've known far too many lesbian mothers to believe that stereotype!)

I wanted Buffy to be with Captain Cardboard - or someone else who could give her kids. I know, it's nature talking.

Interesting *(hides shovel)* Seriously, I liked him for a time and shipped them together in S4, although I ignored the warning signs ("Doomed"). I gues when I was watching I shipped Buffy with whoever she loved and wanted to be with at the given moment. I just wanted her to be happy. But then I would have shipped her with Robin Wood at the beginning of S7 - sexy, cool, and he actually took her out to a nice restaurant, how often did that happen in the series? (It wasn't even Spike that squashed that for me it was the You remind me of my mother line in Get it Done. No thanks *lol*)

As for Riley, I think it could have worked in theory if they'd been willing to go to couples' counseling. And he learned that cheating on your partner is NOT an acceptable way to get their attention. *lol* (That's not what they teach in Iowa - is it?) I really would be curious as to how he would react if something happened after he married Sam - she was promoted, he was injured and couldn't work etc. I don't get the sense that he ever worked on his issues, just sort of retreated and regressed to his old self.

As for kids, given that she and Faith are now the grand matriarchs of the new Slayers, can you imagine Joyce reacting to all these "granddaughters"? There has GOT to be some great, funny AU fanfic in that idea, I swear. (Maybe I can get clockwork_hart1 to write it? *ponders*)