Have I ever told you my theory that Spike is really a Bond girl?
For realz? *giggles maniacally* Although he's got a lot more agency than a typical Bond girl - but then I haven't seen any Bond films since the, um, early '80's? Late '70's? No Bond girl ever took over the story - they were all pretty much throwaways. except Diana Rigg who was AWESOME and of course they killed her at the end of the movie.
This is a problem I have with many fandoms, and the reason why I don't care about a lot of popular fandoms like The Avengers and Doctor Who.
When I was a very very little girl I loved the Batman series because of the theme song - and Catwoman. My eyes were focused on the women from day one. I did enjoy Doctor Who with my friends in college, but there were a lot of the same issues. We were surprised that in the last two seasons with Sylvester McCoy the story arcs actually focused on the companion, Ace, and not the Doctor himself. There was a much more feminist feel to them - which of course is when it got put on hiatus. *pouts*
I was in Moulin Rouge fandom for a while - I have no idea why I was obsessed with Satine but I was. I think I wanted to make her the center of the story? Some fans did focus on fleshing out the women (dancers) but the film and the fans are focused on Christian's relationships. Which is true of nearly ever story in our culture - male is the default "protagonist" so even when the protagonist is female we have a problem seeing her beyond what she means to a man, not the other way around. We've been TRAINED to see things this way; it's a sort of cultural hypnosis that's thousands of years in the making.
What I want from a fandom is a) more than one interesting female characters (that is, a character whose strength cannot be summarised with "can beat up a lot of men", and who doesn't get the disclaimer "but feminine"), and b) at least one non-familial, positive relationship between two women. Strangely, though, I still manage to watch quite a lot of TV and movies ;)
And is that so much to ask? I wouldn't think so, but apparently it is. BTW - have you seen the "Women Together" meta-pic from gabrielleabelle that rebcake linked to upthread?
I'm watching Crossing Jordan right now and I love Jordan, she's tightly wound, focused, bitchy, sometimes coming apart but very loyal. A difficult woman. And I love her (full disclosure- I've had a crush on Jill Hennessey since Law and Order in the '90's.) There's another female regular who is a softer character, the voice of wisdom, earth-goddess type. And a few rotating female characters. But they interact very little - most of their interactions are with the male characters. We're sometimes told that they are friends but rarely shown that. Shockingly, the series Bones actually does a better job with female relationships (except the one time Angela decided to temporarily hook up with an old lesbian ex. Sweeps week lesbos!) There are three main female characters, three main male characters; Angela is Brennan's best friend, Brennan and her boss Cam have an interesting, prickly relationship but respect each other very much.
Nurse Jackie and United States of Tara also do ok with having female interactions but I especially love Leslie and Ann in Parks and Rec. I'd totally ship them together if I didn't like Ben so much.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2013-07-02 12:13 am (UTC)For realz? *giggles maniacally* Although he's got a lot more agency than a typical Bond girl - but then I haven't seen any Bond films since the, um, early '80's? Late '70's? No Bond girl ever took over the story - they were all pretty much throwaways. except Diana Rigg who was AWESOME and of course they killed her at the end of the movie.
This is a problem I have with many fandoms, and the reason why I don't care about a lot of popular fandoms like The Avengers and Doctor Who.
When I was a very very little girl I loved the Batman series because of the theme song - and Catwoman. My eyes were focused on the women from day one. I did enjoy Doctor Who with my friends in college, but there were a lot of the same issues. We were surprised that in the last two seasons with Sylvester McCoy the story arcs actually focused on the companion, Ace, and not the Doctor himself. There was a much more feminist feel to them - which of course is when it got put on hiatus. *pouts*
I was in Moulin Rouge fandom for a while - I have no idea why I was obsessed with Satine but I was. I think I wanted to make her the center of the story? Some fans did focus on fleshing out the women (dancers) but the film and the fans are focused on Christian's relationships. Which is true of nearly ever story in our culture - male is the default "protagonist" so even when the protagonist is female we have a problem seeing her beyond what she means to a man, not the other way around. We've been TRAINED to see things this way; it's a sort of cultural hypnosis that's thousands of years in the making.
What I want from a fandom is a) more than one interesting female characters (that is, a character whose strength cannot be summarised with "can beat up a lot of men", and who doesn't get the disclaimer "but feminine"), and b) at least one non-familial, positive relationship between two women. Strangely, though, I still manage to watch quite a lot of TV and movies ;)
And is that so much to ask? I wouldn't think so, but apparently it is. BTW - have you seen the "Women Together" meta-pic from
I'm watching Crossing Jordan right now and I love Jordan, she's tightly wound, focused, bitchy, sometimes coming apart but very loyal. A difficult woman. And I love her (full disclosure- I've had a crush on Jill Hennessey since Law and Order in the '90's.) There's another female regular who is a softer character, the voice of wisdom, earth-goddess type. And a few rotating female characters. But they interact very little - most of their interactions are with the male characters. We're sometimes told that they are friends but rarely shown that. Shockingly, the series Bones actually does a better job with female relationships (except the one time Angela decided to temporarily hook up with an old lesbian ex. Sweeps week lesbos!) There are three main female characters, three main male characters; Angela is Brennan's best friend, Brennan and her boss Cam have an interesting, prickly relationship but respect each other very much.
Nurse Jackie and United States of Tara also do ok with having female interactions but I especially love Leslie and Ann in Parks and Rec. I'd totally ship them together if I didn't like Ben so much.