I've had in mind for quite some time to compare Surprise/ GD with Smashed and Chosen, because those relationships run in opposite trajectories and the physical match between Buffy beneath Angel as he feeds on her and Spike beneath Buffy as she "takes her pleasure"
Ohh, yes! Definitely. Also -- I was gonna say that the person beneath offers themselves in both cases, but that is more the case for Spike in the alley scene in DT, which is not sexual in nature.
there's the old punishment of female sexuality again; a woman must be tamed, domesticated (to the love and service of a man) or die. And sometimes she is tamed but dies anyway (Satine in Moulin Rouge for ex.) Buffy becomes "Virgin" again in a spiritual sense.
It is so gross. :( Though, I wonder if it can't also be said that Spike is "tamed" in this case as well? One thing that is so fascinating about Buffy and Spike is how both of them take both "masculine" and "feminine" roles at different points in the relationship.
Also, how would you view Buffy kissing Angel in Chosen in this context?
Willow/Tara also runs in an opposite trajectory and Tara dies after she fully voices her sexual desires without timidity, when she becomes a more confident woman.
Yes. That one is really obvious and stark. And doubly awful since her desires are for another woman. So they're not just punishing the woman, they're punishing the lesbian. Tara can exist as a lesbian as long as she's timid about it and subordinate to Willow, who notably does not get punished in the same way.
And why isn't all of fandom squeeing over the resemblances between the hands imagery in Hush and Chosen, and the FtB in both NMR & Chosen? (Aside from the fact that it's a cop-out - which is actually something else they share in common.)
MYSTERIES OVER MYSTERIES. Come to think of it, the relationships of the Scoobies are usually only compared insofar as that they all end tragically, aren't they? Maybe there's more to unearth here.
Yeah, it's so extremely complicated. And I'll add Riley into the mix. I've mentioned on my own LJ (did I already tell you this) and other's that Riley's ultimatum and rejection of her love, his abandonment and betrayal cut her on a really deep level, but all the focus is on what Angel did to her in fandom and in some ways the show itself. I'll always insist that before that she saw herself (S4) as being drawn to bad boys and believing pain was part of a relationship but still seeing herself as being capable of loving and being in a relationship, to believing that she was becoming hard and believing that her mother died not knowing if Buffy loved her. And the show itself seems to support that view. WTF?? That to me is a massive emotional injury and it doesn't get talked about. Either people tend to have little interest in Riley, or they see her as causing the break up.
I do think some fans view Riley as at fault, but it is true that the extent of the impact the breakup with him had on her psyche is not really addressed. And often the focus still is on whether she truly loved him or not. You're right though: Riley does give her that last push toward believing herself a complete destroyer of love, doesn't he? :( Guh it's so unfair. Especially since I think she is very affectionate toward him and he just ignores that in favor of letting his insecures talk and warp things to a point where he thinks he's hardly more than a nice sextoy to her (b/c let's be real, that's what he was thinking; just be glad you're not Spike, honey).
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branchandroot
Re: 3/3 what is this post even becoming
Date: 2013-07-03 06:43 pm (UTC)Ohh, yes! Definitely. Also -- I was gonna say that the person beneath offers themselves in both cases, but that is more the case for Spike in the alley scene in DT, which is not sexual in nature.
there's the old punishment of female sexuality again; a woman must be tamed, domesticated (to the love and service of a man) or die. And sometimes she is tamed but dies anyway (Satine in Moulin Rouge for ex.) Buffy becomes "Virgin" again in a spiritual sense.
It is so gross. :( Though, I wonder if it can't also be said that Spike is "tamed" in this case as well? One thing that is so fascinating about Buffy and Spike is how both of them take both "masculine" and "feminine" roles at different points in the relationship.
Also, how would you view Buffy kissing Angel in Chosen in this context?
Willow/Tara also runs in an opposite trajectory and Tara dies after she fully voices her sexual desires without timidity, when she becomes a more confident woman.
Yes. That one is really obvious and stark. And doubly awful since her desires are for another woman. So they're not just punishing the woman, they're punishing the lesbian. Tara can exist as a lesbian as long as she's timid about it and subordinate to Willow, who notably does not get punished in the same way.
And why isn't all of fandom squeeing over the resemblances between the hands imagery in Hush and Chosen, and the FtB in both NMR & Chosen? (Aside from the fact that it's a cop-out - which is actually something else they share in common.)
MYSTERIES OVER MYSTERIES. Come to think of it, the relationships of the Scoobies are usually only compared insofar as that they all end tragically, aren't they? Maybe there's more to unearth here.
Yeah, it's so extremely complicated. And I'll add Riley into the mix. I've mentioned on my own LJ (did I already tell you this) and other's that Riley's ultimatum and rejection of her love, his abandonment and betrayal cut her on a really deep level, but all the focus is on what Angel did to her in fandom and in some ways the show itself. I'll always insist that before that she saw herself (S4) as being drawn to bad boys and believing pain was part of a relationship but still seeing herself as being capable of loving and being in a relationship, to believing that she was becoming hard and believing that her mother died not knowing if Buffy loved her. And the show itself seems to support that view. WTF?? That to me is a massive emotional injury and it doesn't get talked about. Either people tend to have little interest in Riley, or they see her as causing the break up.
I do think some fans view Riley as at fault, but it is true that the extent of the impact the breakup with him had on her psyche is not really addressed. And often the focus still is on whether she truly loved him or not. You're right though: Riley does give her that last push toward believing herself a complete destroyer of love, doesn't he? :( Guh it's so unfair. Especially since I think she is very affectionate toward him and he just ignores that in favor of letting his insecures talk and warp things to a point where he thinks he's hardly more than a nice sextoy to her (b/c let's be real, that's what he was thinking; just be glad you're not Spike, honey).