Potential Rupert Giles Prompt Puppy (don't say "bunny" or Anya will freak, 'kay?)

[red_satin_doll]

ETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap

Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading  the episode notes for WTTH  by 2maggie2

In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them.  (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).

(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)

Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series.  There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else.  All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).

And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.

So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles.  So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction.  I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept.  If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.

So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.

ETA: beer_good_foamy  and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below,  "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.)  Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act.  It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.

** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)

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Comments

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Really good point. I can't think of a Giles as the Big Bad fic offhand. I know there are a few fics where he's the bad guy, (I just read one the other day) but they're usually pretty blatant basher-fics. IE, Giles is a bad guy by arrogance and trying to control Buffy's life rather than an actual threat.

You make some excellent points though about the way Buffy & Giles are set up in the first episode; I wonder why I haven't read more Evil giles? Maybe because almost everyone likes him?

You don't see a lot of Evil Anya fic either, and she's a canon bad guy.

[molly_may]

I can only think of one Giles-as-villain story off the top of my head, though surely there are more out there! I don't think this is exactly the kind of thing you had in mind - it's an alternate universe fic, not a story where you see Giles go "bad", and he's really only present in the story for a few paragraphs, but he makes quite an impression. When She Was Bad, by Julie Fortune. (Unlike 99% of the fic I recommend, this is not Spuffy. It's S3 era gen fic.)

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmm. I think you are right, and I'll bet that scene was put in there to create the space for Giles to "go bad" if they chose to do so later. However, WTTH is all about subverting expectations, so cute schoolgirl is the monster, creepy old guy is the helper, and mysterious guy in the alley is...neither. I'm just as glad that they went the way they did. ;-)

Giles turning into the big bad — through hubris and for the greater good — could work really well. Certainly, they could have used Ms. Calendar's death as the catalyst. I do worry that readers would find it bash-y though. One of the valuable things Giles brings to the story is that of the "sadder but wiser" adult, who made many of the same mistakes Willow did, but was able to overcome his infatuation with power and channel that into a dedication to service. Plus, I guess they needed a "teacher" for the mythic structure to work.

[waddiwasiwitch.livejournal.com]

Oh I would love to read something with an evil Giles.

Hmmm very interesting...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

The male mentor betraying the female hero - didn't Joss do exactly that plot in, uh, a later series? (Hard to even say which one without whopping big spoilers...)

I don't recall seeing any fics on that premise - I've seen a few dark Giles fics, including one really good twist on "The Gift" where Giles ends up having to kill Dawn since Buffy's sacrifice turns out to do absolutely nothing*, but none where Giles becomes the real big bad. Huh.

* ETA: Damn if it's not the exact story you mention upthread. Great minds have the same small reference pools. :)

[readerjane]

Ooh! Some promising links to follow-up on.

Someday when I retire I will read all the BtVS fic I can get my hands on. Unless, by that time, the internet has evolved into something too newfangled for my aged brain to navigate. :-)

I think, if Giles were to become the Big Bad, it would be because he was so certain he was Right and Knew Best. Like in LMPTM. Not because he was possessed, or out of loss the way Willow went dark in S6, or because Giles just snapped. It would be the badness of the man who feels privileged to make decisions for other people, because he believed his (genuine) superior knowledge and experience gave him that right.

That attitude must always have been a real danger for Giles, surrounded by teenagers and young adults who really were thoughtless and impulsive much of the time.

Side note: Eee, I'd never seen that parallel between the two balcony scenes! I'd been uncomfortable in the WTTH one, thinking it was weird that Giles would stand so close to a young girl he barely knew. But even though I've watched the series through several times, I didn't tie the scene in Dead Things back to the WTTH one. Now I kinda want to start the whole series again. :-)

[baphrosia.livejournal.com]

It doesn't truly fit your criteria either, but 'Clocks of the Long Now' certainly sets Giles up as a Big Bad.

I've also seen a story where Spike and Buffy time-travel back to the 70's and encounter Ethan and Ripper. Not quite Giles as *the* Big Bad either, but it provides a glimpse of a somewhat out of control Giles. I can't remember who wrote it or what it was called though.

I was actually thinking about Giles, his push for independence, and leaving in S6, and really, Tony had other places to be that season. That's it. Otherwise, him leaving - especially the first time, before they raise Buffy from the dead - makes zero sense. *Giles* would leave the Hellmouth unprotected and Dawn without financial security? Uh... NO. That was just to prepare us all so it wasn't so surprising when he left again. The entire set-up to Buffy's big crappy year is poorly done. I'm really supposed to believe that nobody was contributing financially? Hello, what would have happened if they hadn't managed to bring Buffy back? If it had been RL rather than plot contrivance (ignoring that there's no raising the dead in RL :)), the financial stuff would have been taken care of, not left to pile up. There's no way ANY of those normally responsible adults would have left Dawn in such dire straights. I can't hate the Scoobies for their giant, writer-caused, OOC behaviour when it comes to the financial stuff that is, for some strange reason, all Buffy's responsibility.

[rahirah]

Outside of bashing fics, the main evil!Giles series I remember is Career Change by Two Ladies of Quality. I haven't actually read this one myself, but I remember it getting pretty good buzz back when it was first posted.

Wednesday, February 6

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User oni_9 referenced to your post from Wednesday, February 6 (http://su-herald.livejournal.com/637498.html) saying: [...] Potential Rupert Giles Prompt Bunny [...]

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend Career Change http://www.spanderfiles.com/arvs/twoladiesofquality/cc.html

I don't know if I need permission to quote a bit but here goes -

[When Giles opened his eyes, he was laying on the floor of Spike's crypt, wrapped in chains, and Spike was on the other side of the room with a loaded crossbow aimed at him.

"So, you're awake," Spike said.

"I feel very odd. Why are you pointing that at me? You can't use it on me."

"I will if you're not reasonable."

Giles looked at him curiously. "You act like you're worried about me. Good." He frowned. "My face feels odd."

"I'd show you a mirror, but it wouldn't help."

"What happened?"

"What happened is I have to have some very serious words with Dru about what she dumps into my crypt when I'm not home and she's in a pissy mood."]

It takes place after Dru's visit in season 5 - Giles gets sired by Dru. When he suggests he get his soul back Spike tells him "Oh, get your soul back, hm? Doesn't get rid of the demon, you know, just makes it even more schizophrenic. From what I hear, Angel was just a big handsome lunk running through his daddy's money on drink and women. Nothing too complicated, average guy, meaning no real harm. But you, Rupert, what kind of soul would you be getting back? Average likeable lout? Or a sorcerer who's made a study of darkness, something more than a little hard and ruthless. Something comfortable in the company of a guy named Ripper." He nodded at the look on Giles face. "Your soul and your demon might have more to chat about than you want to think of, mate."

My spoilers are all from the first page and it is a long many chaptered, pretty intricate fic. Giles is not only a kickass vampire - he's also a master of dark magics and has no compunctions against using them.

You might also want to check out Love that Dares - http://www.lovethatdares.com/ - What Lies Within. Willow does a spell that has Giles and Spike switching bodies, and she show realistically what would happen if Gile merged into his demon. It also has some great scooby stuff.

I am going to bookmark this discussion so I can come back and read all these stories.

[kerkevik.livejournal.com]

The best of the Buffy novels was one where Giles, as a vampire, became the most dangerous enemy Buffy had ever faced. I think it was published as four books, but I bought the omnibus version. There were a lot of character deaths in that one, but sadly no Tara.

I have in mind a Buffyverse series where Tara plays the big bad though :-)

Ray.

[ashes1753.livejournal.com]

I've read a fic in which Drusilla turns Giles into a Vampire during Becomming Pt 2. It's not exactly Giles as a big bad though, or at least it wasn't when i was reading it. Incomplete and hasn't been updated in a while, if memory serves the author was focusing on uni.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5738904/1/Still-Here

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

On that Bronze scene with Giles looking over Buffy's shoulder, I seem to recall from the DVD commentary Joss being upset that Giles had gotten so close to Buffy. Apparently Joss wanted them to keep to a non-creepy distance but that didn't happen. I don't recall him being clear on why the actor kept getting too close.

Of course it's been ages since I've watched the commentary so it could be that, like the Golux, I made it all up! ;-) (and the win for most obscure reference goes too...)

And now I so want to read a Giles as the Big Bad fic!

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Fic: In a Corner of My Soul, Prologue 1

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User dragonyphoenix referenced to your post from Fic: In a Corner of My Soul, Prologue 1 (http://dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com/268365.html) saying: [...] Notes: Original concept, Giles as the Big Bad of season 1, from Red Satin Doll's meta post [...]

Fic: In a Corner of My Soul, Prologue

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User dragonyphoenix referenced to your post from Fic: In a Corner of My Soul, Prologue (http://dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com/268884.html) saying: [...] Summary: Giles as the Big Bad of season 1. Original concept from Red Satin Doll's meta post [...]