red_satin_doll: (Get it Done)
red_satin_doll ([personal profile] red_satin_doll) wrote2013-09-06 03:19 pm

Odds and Ends

Good news: The cable guys came today and hooked up our internet service; we only had two days to wait. So now we're connected again, yay! I hope to be on again more often here - I've missed being here and getting to play. I need the release more than ever.

I just sketched out a rough draft for a post-series Buffy & Faith (and/or Buffy/Faith) fic the other day; I haven't ever written fic about the two of them before allthough I've got plenty of meta notes.  (It's occured to me I should start looking for a beta, and realize for all my experience being one, I have no idea how to ask for one.)

After the housefire, the crying jag, etc I've been thinking about Buffy post-series in ways I hadn't before: What's it like to have your entire world turned upside-down? To lose your home, the things you own, silly stuff that in some ways had come to define you? (Everyone thought I was crazy because I was thrilled that my childhood stuffed koala bear survived intact.) To have to remake-redefine yourself again because the patterns of your life, based on the habits built around the things you owned, the house you lived in, are suddenly no longer there anymore?

I'm familiar with the concept of displacement because I've been moved around many times since my dad died when I was about three yrs old: Mom remarried, then later divorced (and we left the house in the middle of the night); she bought a house and then another later; I went away to college, met my sweetie, moved and moved again. But this housefire is different - we've moved to another apartment but on the same property, we're still sorting through the damaged and destroyed things, betwixt and between if you will. I've tossed out books and antique photos I loved; I can't find anything in this new apartment because it's all still in boxes and bags; I set something down and five minutes later forget where. I did "detail work" today, lining kitchen cabinets, more cleaning and scrubbing of course, trying to find places for things. I'm not a great with organizational skills.  There's no sense of familiarity or rhythms to the way we live yet.

The only thing that feels familiar is the way my sweetie and I communicate - or don't as the case may be. We argue and snipe at each other but we did that before anyway, so nothing new. She says I'm loud, I'm yelling, I'm hyper, etc; I say she's controlling and bossy and is also hyper but doesn't see it. The thing I notice now more than ever is that she says every single thing that comes into her mind. I'm not kidding - it's a constant stream-of-consciousness conversation, and I have to suss out when she's talking aloud to herself and when she's talking to me and expects a response. That's nothing new either but it's more intense now, I think.

The week has been crazy, chaotic - horrible rains on the day we were moving most of our stuff and still a ton left to go. I admit I cursed the deities I don't currently believe in, just for good measure: "Really, God? REALLY? I know you have a sense of humor and all that, and I mean this with all due respect but - Fuck you. Don't take that the wrong way or anything."

But the tarp I'd put up over the tent (all by myself, I'll have you know) withstood the rains and is still standing. *pats self on back*  So there's that at least.
gillo: (Default)

[personal profile] gillo 2013-09-06 07:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I've done plenty of beta stuff in the Buffyverse, so I'd be happy to help. Not crazy about explicit non-con or violent sex, but more or less anything else is fair game.

I'm so sorry your life has been turned upside down. Sadly, all the clichés are true - you only can do it one step, one day, one hour at a time.

{{hugs}}

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-06 08:00 pm (UTC)(link)
When I've had a chance to write up the word docs I happily accept your offer, and thank you very much!

I had a Buffy & Dawn fic as well almost ready to go but the doc got destroyed when the desktop burned, so I need to recreate that one.

Not crazy about explicit non-con or violent sex

Not to worry, those are exactly the sorts of things that will make me hit the back button in a big hurry. I'm not even crazy about totally consensual explicit sex scenes. And I have no idea why, I'm not exactly a prude IRL. But when it comes to fic I'm the most vanilla Buffyverse fan out here. ;)

Thank you so much for the support! *hugs back*
gillo: (Default)

[personal profile] gillo 2013-09-06 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay! I rather enjoy doing beta stuff. You can email me at gill dot othenat gmaildot com.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-06 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you!

Just to let you know I've been told that I have "an excellent command of the [English] language" but I confess I have no mastery whatsoever of grammar rules beyond I before E except after C. Fair warning.
gillo: (Default)

[personal profile] gillo 2013-09-06 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm an escaped English teacher - that's the sort of stuff I do without thinking, almost!

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
*iz jealous* I still recall a middle-school grammar class taught by Mrs Soucey (one of my all-time favorite teachers), and staring blankly while everyone else discussed...whatever they were discussing. the terms were all greek to me and yet I'd attended every single class previously. It was very much like how I was in math classes, but I was used to being an A-student in English, so it was humbling to say the least. I recently took a pre-algerbra class in college again and was quite good at it (decades on) so maybe if I retook grammar I'd also do well now, but that one class made me think that I'm "no good" at grammar and I never thought to really pursue it.

When you say "escaped" btw do you mean as in "thank god I'm free at last" or "call the authorities I've been let lose on an unsuspecting public and am out of control!"
gillo: (Writing tools)

[personal profile] gillo 2013-09-12 10:46 am (UTC)(link)
Definitely "thank god I'm free at last", though possibly some of my ex-pupils might disagree. I used to do crazy things on occasion to make stuff memorable - standing on a table over the "corpse" of a twelve-year-old Julius Caesar to do Mark Antony's big speech, for example.

I have never been convinced about the value of formal grammar lessons, myself. The terminology can be useful to help one recognise a mistake, but no diagramming ever helped anyone write a better sentence, IMO.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-12 02:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I used to do crazy things on occasion to make stuff memorable - standing on a table over the "corpse" of a twelve-year-old Julius Caesar to do Mark Antony's big speech, for example.

I would have LOVED that (but then I was big into acting and theater at the time); didn't Robin Williams do that in - what was that movie? The movie teachers are always wacky, aren't they? I think more wackiness would be welcome (but now US public school education seems to be all about getting test scores, not learning and thinking. Not about creativity - and thinking requires creativity. A retired teacher I know said she did not envy the new generation of teachers, that the field was nothing like the one she entered.)

but no diagramming ever helped anyone write a better sentence, IMO.

*whew* I feel so much better, thank you! I really used to hate that sort of thing, but even the terminology would elude me which seems strange - I'm a word person. My thesaurus was my friend. (I still had the dictionary and thesaurus I'd had from high school until they got messed up in the fire *sniffle*)

But then I did very well in my Logic class, and that involved "mathematical equations" - B happens after A, that does not mean that A caused B to occur and that sort of thing. IDK

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-18 04:12 pm (UTC)(link)
BTW- could you send me your email again in a PM, please? I'm looking at what you've typed and I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly.

[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com 2013-09-06 10:50 pm (UTC)(link)
It would be bizarre if your recent trauma hadn't intensified your feelings and actions. You went through fire - literally! (And I understand completely about the koala. It can't be replaced.)


Gabrielle

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 03:45 pm (UTC)(link)
It's interesting that you use the word "trauma" because at first I'd been all "I'm fine, we're fine, no big deal, we didn't lose everything, scheme of things and blah blah" and now I'm feeling the weight of, yes, trauma. I've made fires in the outdoor grill and grilled things without blinking since then, but I'm hyper-aware whenever I hear a siren from a fire truck or ambulance nearby. I feel very similar at times to when I've been depressed - lethargic at times and tired, sometimes angry or sad, reluctant to speak to people or interact and withdrawn as if I were ashamed or embarrassed - but it doesn't feel like "depression" in the same sense either. (Maybe "situational depression" rather than "chronic depression"?)

FYI - I took a photo of my koala this morning. (His name is Euclid. Yes, he has a name. It seemed dignified thing to do.) But our card reader burned up so I can't download the photos yet! He looked entirely nonplussed by the turn of events *lol* He's very dignified, in his way.

[personal profile] kikimay 2013-09-06 11:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I can only imagine how much it sucks to see your things, your own things, destroyed and to have to replace them even when you don't want to. And all the stress. I'm sending you a virtual bear hug!

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 03:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I tried to send you one back yesterday but the computer was a little wonky and slow! So, I'm sending one back to you with extra interest, sweetie.

Yesterday I was thrilled to discover that an art print - a large woodcut made by one of my sweetie's classmates in art school that I'd bought for over $100 (and never framed but wrapped in acid-free achival paper and tucked between cardboard) was in my closet, not my sweetie's bedroom and burned up like I thought - and it was totally untouched by the fire, water, etc! It's those little things that become so important right now when everything else is so chaotic.

[identity profile] chasingdemons.livejournal.com 2013-09-07 01:43 pm (UTC)(link)
It may sound silly (to anyone outside the fandom), but at sometimes when life has been really difficult, I've taken inspiration from Buffy, and it's helped me get through.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspect nowadays it only sounds silly to those who don't want to admit being fans of something (or someone.)

And yes, I've been taking a lot of inspiration from Buffy lately. It may sound supremely silly, egotistical or over-dramatic, but I've been thinking about S6 a lot again and remembering why it is my favorite season on a personal level. Oh the shit that Buffy went through, bless her.

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-07 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Life is what influences our writing, let's us imagine the world our charachters inhabit. Glad things are pulling back together and that lifeline has now been re-established. The www is such a huge part of life these days. It's like having a part ripped away to lose it. :D

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Which worries me sometimes - that I've become part of the problem, being addicted to the computer! (Have you watched Timer with Emma Caulfied? We watched it one Netflix before the fire, and it's a "romantic comedy" with a bittersweet ending and some actual ideas, such as the way technology influences us and becomes our master rather than the other way around.)

My sweetie used to hate computers and was quite the luddite (she owned a house "in the hollow" in West Virginia for two years back in the day with no electricity and running water!) Now she might as well have her ipod surgically attached. (And before the fire I wasn't any better when it came to the desktop 'puter!)

And 100% agreement on life influencing our writing - yes we're influenced by our culture, by the work of other artists (not just fan writers btw!) but if all there is to one's art is aping other arts and media without the breath of lived experience, it feels utterly empty at the core, don't you think?

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-08 08:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm addicted and trying to wean myself. Totally controls my life when I'm on it and I forget to play in the real world.

it feels utterly empty at the core, don't you think?

Yes, I do think. I'm always amazed when a young writer produces a book that speaks of age and wisdom. It surely means they were here before, because research can't possibly bring that. Then I remmebr that some get to live a very hard life, very early. :D

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
My best friend, Kendra Saunders, is a talented and accomplished novelist and she's so very mature and intelligent; we can talk about almost anything because she's had a hard-knock upbringing much as I have. And she's half my age and I'm rarely ever aware of it.

I remember on ff.net back over ten years ago when I discovered it - discovered fanfiction online, period - that I was shocked that the best writers in the catagory I hung out in were 13-22 years old, generally, some of whom became great friends. (And then there was the time I thought someone who was a 12 year old from the immaturity of their style turned out to be a thirty-something mom. Oops.)

Those young women and teenagers were all so intelligent, so wise before their time, and they wrote prose that continues to inspire me today because it spoke to me so clearly and honestly.

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 08:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd forgotten but I used to write quite a bit through high school. English was my best subject. I also read voraciously. I was into writing angsty, abstract stuff. Teenagers are a hotbed of feelings and hormones, I guess.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
*lol* I used to show my mom my teenage poetry and she'd look at me very seriously and say "I'm worried about you." And I'd respond "Mom, I'm playing with language!" And after a while I stopped showing her my stuff. That's the thing about showing your stuff to a family member; they're not looking at the work, they're looking at you. (Although in retrospect, she was probably right to worry? IDK, she worries anyway.)

Given that I still love the angsty stuff, I hope that isn't a sign I've not grown up yet? (Which I now suspect is overrated anyway.)

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
I've never shown my stuff to my parents. Don't think they would have understood.

DO NOT GROW UP - so over rated. It's why men delay it for so long. Then when they do they are terribly boring. I've tried it - so totally wrong! Lol!

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
good advice on both counts!

This week has left me feeling so old - I just want to play a little bit.

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 08:29 am (UTC)(link)
Can understand that. Things will settle. :D

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 01:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I hope so - thank you for the encouragement. *hugs*

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-11 01:20 am (UTC)(link)
I can understand where you're coming from. Hopefully things will get a little easier now you're moved in. We all need to play. :D

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-13 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks!

I indulged in eurydice72's "A Stone's Throw from Yesterday" a few days ago (AMAZING true-to-canon characterizations and engrossing story) and have bookmarked some of my favorite videos by [livejournal.com profile] nvrbnkisst and afterthebattle, to try to rebuild my bookmarks!

[identity profile] comlodge.livejournal.com 2013-09-13 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Bugger. You do realise that you sent me straight to eurydice72 on elysian fields and though I've read ASTfY I have to read it again because my memory is like that and I will also have to read the other dozen stories I just slotted into my bookshelf there! I was so hoping to get back to RL for a little while. Lol!

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-13 09:52 pm (UTC)(link)
*dusts off hands* My work here is done....

lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-09 02:54 am (UTC)(link)
I find it comforting to be able to relate real life experiences, even the bad stuff, with fictional experiences. I think that's part of what stories are for...

And I don't know exactly what you're looking for in a beta, and I see you already have an offer anyway...but if you ever find yourself looking for someone on the critique side of things, and it's not explicit material, I'd be willing to take a stab at it.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-09 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you and I accept your offer as well! I've noticed some of the best writers in the fandom have more than one beta so I'd be more than happy to take you up on it. I myself am horrible at judging grammar as I told Gillo; constructive critique has always been my strength and I'm definitely wanting that as well. I'm a horrible judge of my own stuff when I'm in the process.
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-10 03:10 am (UTC)(link)
Cool! This will be my first time betaing, but I have attended writers workshops and done that style of critique before, so that's where I'm coming from.

Re: grammar, I have to admit, I pay a lot more attention to whether something sounds awkward than to grammar per se (everything I know about grammar, I learned from the process of learning French...and from reading Language Log for a while, where all the linguists are generally on the non-prescriptivist side of things and talk a lot about language as it is used rather than language as it is ruled...)

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
Everything I know about constructive criticism came from one of my college professors. The man had an ego the size of Nevada but his explanation of what criticism is and is not was one of the best lessons I've ever had in my life.

Re: grammar, I have to admit, I pay a lot more attention to whether something sounds awkward than to grammar per se

I'm entirely the same way - which makes explaining to the author why I think something sounds wrong awkward. ("It just does, you need to trust me" only flies with the people who trust me implicitly.)

Is Language Log something available to read online? It sounds interesting.
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-10 04:11 am (UTC)(link)
I generally trust anyone who says something sounds awkward or doesn't flow. Because if it sounds awkward to one person, it will probably sound awkward to other people, even if it doesn't sound awkward to me. And sometimes things are awkward because of being read a certain way -- it might not be the way I want or expected it to be read, but I'd rather clean it up so that it can't be read awkwardly.

Oh, yes, Language Log is a linguistics blog: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-10 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
I generally trust anyone who says something sounds awkward or doesn't flow. Because if it sounds awkward to one person, it will probably sound awkward to other people, even if it doesn't sound awkward to me. And sometimes things are awkward because of being read a certain way -- it might not be the way I want or expected it to be read, but I'd rather clean it up so that it can't be read awkwardly.

Oh, yes, Language Log is a linguistics blog. I was going to give the link but my messages kept being marked as spam (and sorry if you get this a bunch of times, I wasn't sure if a spam message would get to you), but it's easy to find by typing "Language Log" into google.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-10 12:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm having to "unscreen to reply" every time you post something here, and I have no idea why. We're mutual friends on DW, that I do know and I've had other posts in the past from DW accounts so I have no idea what the problem is. I'll double-check my settings but I can't imagine what I would have done to cause this. Huh.

But I am getting your replies in the threads, just not in my inbox. *ponders*

I generally trust anyone who says something sounds awkward or doesn't flow.

But as I always tell my friends when I'm critiquing, "this is just my opinion, I may not be right." (Except when I am, of course.) And "have someone else look at it." I admit I'm not in the avant garde of literature, my reading experience tends towards older novels and nonfiction. Its entirely possible there are conventions I'm unaware of, or that I'm not the audience for the piece.

There are times when I've said to a friend "this doesn't make sense to me" and they've replied "It made sense to so-and-so and so-and-so." Sometimes my brain totally misses things on the first pass.

One of my BIG pet peeves is "who/that" : "the little engine THAT could", "the man WHO married my daughter", etc. I'll point that out to writers, but then websites I checked are contradictory and it turns out that "that" is fairly common useage. (In fact, Buffy uses "that" instead of "who" on the show, so if I correct a fanfic writer for having Buffy say that, I'm in the wrong. But holy sweet potatoes does it hurt my eyes and ears anyway.)

it might not be the way I want or expected it to be read, but I'd rather clean it up so that it can't be read awkwardly.

Sometimes when I'm uncertain about a passage - mine or someone else's - I'll read it aloud and I find that a lot of times that helps me confirm whether or not the passage is awkward. Not just in hearing it but having to slow down to do so.

Language Log is a linguistics blog: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/

Thank you for the link! I will definitely check it out. (I bet it will be helpful for my fanfic - my Dawn, in the little bit I've written, is a Super Linguist Chick *lol*)
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-11 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe it would help if you friended this account? It's not actually my dreamwidth account that I'm using here, it's a livejournal open id account that's linked to my DW account, so I don't think LJ knows anything about DW friending.

Oh, true, it's always up to the person who actually wrote the piece what they want to do. All someone giving critique has to offer is opinions...but I think I may be more sensitive about awkward, and especially the kind of awkward that might lead to misreading -- it's something I always try to pay attention to because I think I'm prone to making mistakes in that direction.

But I suppose there's often a tradeoff between accessible and...complicated? Between always being understood by anyone who might read it, and doing something that might not be quite as easy to understand on the first pass. Sometimes something's more geared toward being complicated for the fun of it, the fun of figuring it all out...like the kind of science fiction where they drop you head first into a complicated alien culture. I don't really understand how to write that kind of thing and get it just complicated enough, but I love reading complicated things sometimes.

Hmm, I'd probably accept the engine being a who due to the engine being completely anthromorphized anyway, and the man that married my daughter sounds okay to me, though I think I'd prefer who. I wonder if it's regional or something. The only thing like that that drives me nuts is when someone says something like "Microsoft are..." and my brain just screams even though I know it's proper usage in the UK and possibly other places as well.

And reading aloud seems like such an awkward idea to me, but maybe I would feel differently if it were not late at night and silence all around. I probably ought to try it all the same, because of the slowing down effect, and also because I've heard that actually saying things out loud sends them through a different part of the brain, and that makes it easier to catch things too.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-11 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, this comment DID come into my inbox and I don't need to unscreen it so - maybe my LJ finally just recognizes you? I don't know how to friend you into my LJ because when I click your name of course I go to DW.

Oh, true, it's always up to the person who actually wrote the piece what they want to do.

But as I've written elsewhere, there are many times when I've had an author say they want my feedback and then get horribly defensive about it, and tell me I'm wrong or that other people read it and were fine with it, etc. No matter how many compliments and how much praise I gave the piece (I made a practice of starting with the good news), they'd focus on the one thing they didn't like hearing. (I've had two or three people in my life, including my best friend, who have been able to listen to/read my critiques without going bonkers at some point.)

My thing is - DON'T ask for my opinion if you DON'T want to hear what I have to say. Period. (I've told my partner more than once that I'm not giving my opinion on her paintings anymore. She'll like it or hate it no matter what I say.)

it's something I always try to pay attention to because I think I'm prone to making mistakes in that direction.

Sometimes I'm reading too fast, sometimes I think I understand but I don't trust my instincts (that happened when I was reading one of [livejournal.com profile] comlodge's stories on fag_ends recently) and sometimes I just manage to miss and have no idea why. there have been some fics where I totally miss the point, then re-read it and it's so obvious what's going on there that I'm almost embarrassed.

But then sometimes the author just forgot to put in that key piece of information. "How did these characters get from point A to point B?" I think we've all done that at times? We assume what's going on, we know the character is carrying a gun and somehow forget to say so.

But I suppose there's often a tradeoff between accessible and...complicated?

Very much so. I've read stories where the style interferes with the story unnecessarily, IMO - I'm too aware of the style to be able to settle into the story. (I get that sometimes that is the point - the voiceovers and bare stage in Lars von Trier's Dogville is a cinematic example.) And the author will say oh yes, I did that on purpose, and I want to say "But it doesn't work for me." Which means there's someone else it won't work for, either. But again, maybe I'm not really their intended audience.

The only thing like that that drives me nuts is when someone says something like "Microsoft are..." and my brain just screams even though I know it's proper usage in the UK and possibly other places as well.

"MIcrosoft are..."? I don't think I've ever heard that in the US. It would sound very odd to me.

And reading aloud seems like such an awkward idea to me, but maybe I would feel differently if it were not late at night and silence all around.

Acting was my first love (and yes I'm one of those "wanted to be an actress since she was a child but never had the courage to really give it go" people, sadly); but I do have some experience in community theater so reading aloud just came to me as a natural choice. (I almost never do it with nonfiction - except I did read my "Ted" meta aloud after I'd posted it, and found some awkward spots in it that I tried to fixed. Whether I actually improved it is another story.)
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-12 03:50 am (UTC)(link)
If you click on the funny looking icon (I have no idea what it's supposed to represent) that's there to the left of my name in place of the little LJ person icon, it'll take you to the profile for this account.

I think listening to critique is a learned skill. It's really hard at first (and I know I had a hard time really taking in the first critiques that I received), but I think opening up to critique is something that can be learned, if someone wants to.

But that's definitely fair enough. I think another part of the process of critique that requires learning is when to ask for critique, and possibly what to ask for. I've had times when I'm really only open to certain kinds of comments but I did have certain areas I was worried about and wanted comments on, and when I've asked for that specifically it's turned out pretty well. And other times I've put something out there for any kind of critique, and gotten it, and completely rewritten the whole entire thing. (This was when I was writing original stuff.)

When critiquing, I usually try to give my first impression even if I go back and something makes complete sense on the second go-round. Because that's a tricky thing, you pay so much attention when critiquing, going over it and trying to make sure your comments make sense, but ordinary readers won't necessarily, so impressions from the first time through are important too. (When just reading, sometimes I miss things for any number of reasons...I have a tendency to skim without even realizing it every now and then, if the story isn't taking me where I want to go fast enough, and then sometimes I get pulled up short because I missed something. But sometimes I didn't miss it, it just wasn't there...and I do think that happens to every writer sometimes, the forgetting to put in something that's completely obvious to the writer but not to the reader. And sometimes leaving things out is for some sort of literary effect, or something, but that usually doesn't work for me...

As a writer, I think sometimes you do have to just accept that some things won't work for everyone. How far you're willing to go with that...that's a very personal decision, and it can be hard when a reader doesn't get it, or doesn't like it.

No, I've never heard that in the US. I don't know how wide-spread it is outside the US, but if you consider Microsoft (or any company or institution) as a group of people, it makes sense...

I actually took an acting class recently, for fun, and it was fun even though I'm really not suited to acting, as my reluctance to speak my words out loud probably shows. But I felt like I learned a lot from it.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-12 02:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I clicked on the "friend them" line and so hopefully that will fix things in future? BTW I'm curious as to the significance of your nom de plume (it may be nothing more complicated than you like that month. I'm very fond of autumn myself.)

I think listening to critique is a learned skill.

YES, exactly so. Most of us don't grow up receiving "constructive criticism" from our parents. "Do this - because I said so." "Because it's the way it's always been done." "I told you not to hit your sister - now hold still while I spank you with my belt." I remember in school I put too much focus on being right, on getting answers right, on good grades because that's where the focus was. Being "wrong" was something to be avoided; getting a C was unthinkable. (And media doesn't help - commercials communicate to us that our lives will be better IF ONLY we'd use the right detergent and so forth. They are purposely designed to appeal to our sense of inferiority.)

The irony being, the only thing it proved is that I was good in school. Being good in life has been another story altogether. (But, enough about me....)

And sometimes leaving things out is for some sort of literary effect, or something, but that usually doesn't work for me...

If I'm saying "huh? What? Huh?" and the missing piece isn't filled in by the end of the story, then you've thrown me out. Again, sometimes the creator wants to do that. Baz Luhrmann claimed that was his intention with Moulin Rouge, make it difficult to get into, ask the audience member "Are you with us or not?" and do some of the work. It does work to a degree; I loved the movie for a while, irrationally (love is never rational) but there were still chunks of "Huh"? that never worked the way they were supposed to. Ex: the rational for Harold Zidler's motivations (that he was an egotist) never made sense; in the deleted version on the DVD, his motivation was that he was deeply in debt. EVERY MR fanfiction writer I know of (myself included) made the deleted version their headcanon, not the actual canon version.

Or there was a time in the '90's I watched an interview with Don Henley of the Eagles about a new album and he explained/interpreted the meaning of his new song and video in great detail and I thought "It's a pop song. If you have to explain it that much because I won't understand it otherwise, there's a problem." It gets back to "Who is your audience for this?" It just comes off as incredibly self-indulgent unless the person in question respect the intelligence of their audience.

that's a very personal decision, and it can be hard when a reader doesn't get it, or doesn't like it.

Hence the need to pick one's betas carefully. It really helps if your beta is someone who would probably be part of your intended audience, I think. I would not be a good beta for a "bodice ripper" type of story, for instance. I don't know the conventions and I don't read or generally like those sorts of things. OTOH not knowing too much about the conventions of a genre can also be a good thing, I would think? It allows some objectivity and, does the story work for someone who wants to dip their toes in for the first time.

I actually took an acting class recently, for fun,

I'm glad you enjoyed it! For some reason I am terribly shy on a face to face level, in personal interactions, but put me on a stage, be it a literal one or public speaking, or doing demonstrations with a roomful of folks in front of me, and I'm in my element, it's such a joy to me. Even hosting a tv show a few times, there was no one there but the camera person and a guest but in my head? There was an audience out there. Maybe one person, but an audience and I was performing for them. So acting has all sorts of real-world applications, IMO.
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-15 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Hopefully! Thanks. Mostly I just like the way it sounds, and it's always good to be looking for something and occasionally finding it, even :) As well as enjoying autumn...and Anthony Price's October Men was in my mind for some obscure reason, but I can't recall the exact connection. Does yours have a story?

I still remember the point in high school when one of my English teachers said that writing a good paper was not about being right, but rather a good paper had an argument that was well supported by the evidence...but it could be any argument, as long as you could support it. It was a revelation.

But generally, being good in school was such a simple, well-defined thing.

Somehow I've managed to miss seeing Moulin Rouge. It's probably something I should go back and catch up on.

And I tend to take long explanations like that with a grain of salt. That may be what it was intended to be, but it's not what it has to be to me. The thing about songs is that they so often work without actually making sense, they're just like a smorgasbord of imagery and evocative language...

I can't say I've ever had a lot of choice in betas. Aside from occasionally asking a friend... On the other hand, if you get a variety of opinions, it balances out a bit.

Oh, the audience helps a lot, actually. For some reason, it was much more nerve-wracking to perform for just the teacher than to perform for the whole class. I really can't figure it out.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-16 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Does yours have a story?

Over ten years ago I was signing up for an internet forum for the first time - a Nicole Kidman fan forum. (I was really loved her work then, and I loved Moulin Rouge.) "RedSatinDoll" popped into my head, and I think it's a play on one of the most famous costumes from the movie - the red satin dress ("smoldering temptress"). http://fashiondressphotos.blogspot.com/2011/08/red-dress-nicole-kidman-in-moulin-roug.html

the funny thing was, it wasn't my favorite costume from the movie but it's the most iconic and the combination of words just seemed right. And I've stuck with it ever since, with the exception of my long-neglected ff.net pseudonym. (I added the spacemarks to the LJ version because other people like beer_good_foamy do but went back to the original form, which I prefer, for A03.)

one of my English teachers said that writing a good paper was not about being right, but rather a good paper had an argument that was well supported by the evidence...but it could be any argument, as long as you could support it. It was a revelation.

Yes, very much so. And god knows I loved the library and loved research, so supporting my arguments was never a problem. A year ago I came across one of my college essay papers and the evidence was fine - it was the argument itself (and some of my conclusions) that made me wince. My self-esteem is a mess but god I came across as so freakin' arrogant. Yet as writers we need some of that (self-esteem and yes, even arrogance) to be able to write at all and believe it's worth letting other people read it.

The thing about songs is that they so often work without actually making sense, they're just like a smorgasbord of imagery and evocative language...

Of course. Instrumental music is an abstract art form - no language but a great deal of meaning(s), emotions, etc. Would Stairway to Heaven be as famous without the guitar licks? When I'm listening to the Moody Blues "Nights in White Satin" or "Tuesday Afternoon" I honestly don't care what the lyrics mean, I'm swept up and carried along by the music. (That was actually one of the propositions of Moulin Rouge - that Baz Luhrmann felt that the only way the heightened emotions could be fully conveyed was via music.)

Oh, the audience helps a lot, actually. For some reason, it was much more nerve-wracking to perform for just the teacher than to perform for the whole class. I really can't figure it out.

Because you felt you were being judged/evaluated? I think it's always more nerve-wracking in those instances. I watched a part of a documentary once about pastry chefs competing for the highest honors in France and some of them were terrified - and these were all very accomplished and experienced people in their field.



lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-17 03:56 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I can certainly see why that dress is iconic.

I clearly remember throwing out some old high school and college papers several years ago and now I regret it. Seeing the person you used to be is...disconcerting sometimes, but also tells you things about yourself that you might have forgotten.

Oh, true, so true, sometimes it's hard to have that self-confidence, but it's necessary. And hard.

My college roommate introduced me to the Moody Blues (speaking of college). I always pay attention to the words though...I don't care whether they make sense, but there's nothing that will turn me off of a song quicker than not being able to understand the words.

Probably. Actually, I think the instructor set it up that way. Everyone in the class was friendly with each other, and the instructor did a lot to help us bond and trust each other, but the instructor held back from that a bit, so he was a bit intimidating just because of not being quite as much of a known quantity.

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-17 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
but the instructor held back from that a bit, so he was a bit intimidating just because of not being quite as much of a known quantity.

I had quite a few professors with that quality; for some people it's probably a necessity in terms of remaining professional (or maybe that's just their nature anyway?) But it is intimidating, in the same way that performing or speaking to an audience and not being able to hear or see clues re: how they're receiving you or reacting can be. (it took me a while to learn that silence from an audience during the performance of a drama is a sign that they are focused on you. It's disconcerting, but noises from the auditorium would actually signal lack of interest. With comedy though, it's the opposite.)

BTW - could you PM me your email so I can send you any fic for looking over? thanks
lookingforoctober: (Default)

[personal profile] lookingforoctober (from livejournal.com) 2013-09-10 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
Err, I just tried to reply to your comment above but it got marked as spam, so I'm trying again as a reply to the post instead of that particular comment, just in case that helps.

I generally trust anyone who says something sounds awkward or doesn't flow. Because if it sounds awkward to one person, it will probably sound awkward to other people, even if it doesn't sound awkward to me. And sometimes things are awkward because of being read a certain way -- it might not be the way I want or expected it to be read, but I'd rather clean it up so that it can't be read awkwardly.

Oh, yes, Language Log is a linguistics blog: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-11 06:59 pm (UTC)(link)
The only was to turn this into an unsuspicious comment is to reply and so - I reply! *lol* There.

Your most recent comment needed no such fixes so perhaps my journal is recognizing you finallly?

[identity profile] red-satin-doll.livejournal.com 2013-09-13 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)
*Hugs back with interest* :)