Quick quick now!

[red_satin_doll]

1) The deadline is tomorrow, Friday the 20th at midnight for  both otherworldlyric challenge #166 , "Easy Way Out" by Gotye, and slayerstillness challenge 20 "Love Song for a Vampire. More entries are needed - and I'm sitting both of these out, so don't look at me. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the pretties this time around.

And just in case you're easily confusable - a.k.a. "moi" - OWL is the multifandom icontest where you have to use at least two consecutive words from the lyrics of the challenge song. SS is strictly Buffyverse (btvs/ats) and icons can have text or not.  Also, SS is the one that opens the entry and voting threads after the winners have been announced. Which can be fun...or kinda awkward, depending. I actually kind of like it, but wait until an icon I'm sure is gonna win loses big time. Then we'll see what pennywhistle I'm tooting with.)

2) A little bird in fandom (thank you little bird!) informed me that my blog has been rec'd by "snowdropsandtigers" on tumblr.

"On a relevant—yet off-topic—note, it occurs to me that I want to recommend a blogger to follow, in case that might help and you don’t know of her. She’s on LJ and she’s very much a Buffy fan first and Spuffy shipper second, and gives love to the other characters too: http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/  I’m kind of terrible and lurk much more than talk, but I’ve been reading her meta—and the meta she links to—for a while and find it all really lovely."

And I'm just - what do I say except THANK YOU? I don't know who they - who you - are, but I'm really incredibly flattered by your kind words.  I would love to thank snowdropsandtigers (what a wonderful, evocative penname!) but I haven't a tumblr account so - THANK YOU SO MUCH, whoever you are.

And also, what they said about shipping is extremely relevant to my own thoughts of late:

"I’ve experienced that. Unfortunately, I’ve also experienced other fandoms being pretty much the same. The ones I’ve gotten into after getting into Buffy in 2005 do the same things frequently (ship wars; whitewashing characters, usually dudes; distorting characterization/valuing characters mainly for ships, especially with female characters; drama between the fans themselves.).....It burns one out."

That's pretty much the nutmeat of a meta I've been wanting to write on the subject so all I can say at the moment is - ME TOO. Or, WORD. (Is that even a "thing" anymore, that use of "word"? I don't know. You tell me.)

Comments

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to let you know Lexi that I love that you brought this conversation here - it's a coffeehouse in my little home! - and please feel free to carry on. *HUGS*

Kelsey pretty much speaks for me, but I want to reiterate - it's not against you at all. The patterns she calls out are ones you haven't been guilty of, just the opposite.

It comes down to I don't hate shippers I hate the toxic atmosphere created for female characters, for fans of those female characters, for themselves and one another. Failing to have fun over what we all love and instead tearing one another apart over who "wins" who.

I'm of two minds about this: if we say shipper wars dismiss female characters, are we dismissing fans who identify with the males involved?

I'm criticizing patterns of thought and behavior I've seen at large. NEVER have I said "don't identify with male characters." Hell, I have actually fought for and defended Xander to other fans because I can see the good as well as the bad in him. He's complicated.

But I have no problem saying that I am not cool with it when shipping is used as a weapon - against characters, against women, against women's bodies, against other fans. And I'm not ok with it when I see it happen in m/m or f/f fic either, although it happens far less often.

It is entirely possible to identify primarily with Spike/Angel/Giles/Xander/whomever, and not engage in this, either IRL towards other fans, or in fanfiction etc. I have seen it done.

I think the next step is naming and linking to work that does just that. I try to support it, but maybe I haven't done enough.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I feel like I'm playing the Devil's advocate with you and Kelsey, because the both of you haven't said anything that isn't true or that I don't agree with. I just don't want to be dismissive of people who identify with male characters because then we're doing the same thing that happens when people identify with female characters.

Anyway, glad to make your journal the coffeehouse!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I'm not dismissing people who identify primarily with male characters wholesale. I've never suggested any such thing. Love who you love. What Kelsey said in her post is something that I noticed almost immediately when I entered fandom though, the prioritization of male characters to the point that some people will even claim the female protagonist isn't the actual protagonist.

It's not about dismissing anyone, it's identifying a larger cultural pattern.

If anything, part of he problem is the various shipping factions tearing the hell out of one another. It's funny to watch except when it isn't. I've seen conversations turn into shouting matches when the two sides are actually in agreement on an issue but goodness we can't have that can we?

It's not male-oriented fans vs female-oriented fans. the female stans are so marginalized as it is we're just trying to find a way to enter the conversation without being torn down and destroyed ourselves. I know a lot of fans who love male characters primarily, but honor the women within the story. That's what I'm trying to encourage.

And in terms of the "shippers" vs "non-shippers" that's not my war and I don't have a dog in that fight. (EVERYBODY ships somebody IMO. That's a false distinction entirely but some people believe that it exists.)

If folks feel safe discussing these issues here even if we agree to disagree, I think that's a step in the right direction and certainly something I want to encourage

*puts out fresh plate of cookies*