red_satin_doll | Or what's a beta for? And, is there a beta in your meta?

ETA 08/02/13:

comlodge just re-stated the point in the convo thread below that I was attempting to make re: beta-readers and meta and did so better and far more concisely than I could ever hope to. I bow to her awesomeness.

I just noticed one more empty "pending" slot in the Beta catagory at the Running With Scissors Awards, which seems odd to me. Thousands of fandom writers (theoretically) = thousands of betas (theoretically) = unable to fill six slots? Granted a good beta is hard to find - or rather, a successful author-beta partnership based on complete trust and respect for the other person may just be harder to find than a good marriage. The author needs to be able to choose someone who can offer objective, constructive criticism, not flames or insults; who can judge the work based upon what the writer is trying to achieve in the piece and how much it fails or succeeds in that goal; and the beta needs to be someone who can offer help but then detach themselves and always remember it is the author's story, not their own.

On the other side of the page, nothing is more frustrating as a beta (I speak from experience, of course) than dealing with an author who says they want feedback when what they really want is praise. And this is true of 99% percent of the writers I've dealt with, who say they want "feedback" when what they're really after is ego strokes. Of course every writer wants that, but when an author is entering a relationship with a beta partner they need to be clear as to what, exactly they are looking for: an editor? A cheerleader? A teacher or taskmaster? Someone to brainstorm with? Line by line analysis of plot, structure, etc? Hugs and puppies? I'm not a beta for any writers in this fandom currently but I'm a "Muse" for one of my closest friend's novels (we prefer the title "Muse" to "beta"), and I've always been more than willing to give the writers I've working with the feedback they need, if they are willing to listen to what I have to say. (Why ask a beta for their opinion if you don't want to actually hear it?)

One thing I noticed since I've been a part of this fandom: betas are considered essential to fanfiction, to the point that authors actually apologize for not having a beta; why is it then that "meta" (nonfiction writing) posts very rarely mention the feedback of a beta? The exceptions I've seen have tended to be the more intellectual or academic fan essays and analysis. The other day I asked someone to beta a fanfic I'm working on but it's never occured to me to request feedback on a nonfiction fan essay before posting it. Is it custom? Habit? Lack of interest in nonfiction writing in relation to fiction?

(ETA paragraph breaks, hyperlinks, and screencap. Clearly, this post needed a beta of it's own.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Gosh, I'm trying to find where you might have said something offensive, and I can't find it. Funny though, I wrote my last response late at night, and then I wondered if I had said anything offensive.

Honestly that seems to be my M.O. esp when I don't know someone well. I say something and THEN worry I said the wrong thing or read too much into what they say. And most of the time that's not the case at all. After years online I still have a problem with sussing out "tone". I love the internet and the people I get to talk to but I also miss the face-to-face interaction.

So no worries *hugs*

I get that you are very passionate about the show. And I think that's wonderful. A passionate viewpoint would NEVER offend me.

I accept the compliment and thank you for it! (I would have said "stubborn, opinionated and occasionally tactless" but I like your version much better!)

When I first got on LJ, I thought it was going to be lots and lots of fun and we would all hold hands and talk about how much we loved the show. But there was so much more to it, both good and bad. The good part was incredibly joyful and almost the most fun possible. But I think I'm still a little traumatized by some of the bad stuff that happened.

*nods* I've experienced much the same on both ends, definitely. And screwed up royally myself.

Getting into conversation or not depends on a lot of factors. I do really enjoy conversations analyzing BUT certain conditions that tend to be in place: there are other people who I at least partially agree with and/or am probably already comfortable with (I'm learning - hah - that if everyone thinks in one way and I totally disagree - back the hell off, because I'm not going to change anyone's opinions and will probably only offend someone), the language isn't over my head or already taking an unpleasant turn. Civilized exchange is good; arguing for it's own sake is not. I don't like being patronized, talked down to or having my entire opinion dismissed out of hand.

When I first got on LJ, I thought it was going to be lots and lots of fun and we would all hold hands and talk about how much we loved the show. But there was so much more to it, both good and bad. The good part was incredibly joyful and almost the most fun possible. But I think I'm still a little traumatized by some of the bad stuff that happened.

Oh same here - see comments above.

I really think more people could stand to use the term "agree to disagree" when things get heated. In my experience it really helps folks step back, laugh a little, and let go of the need to "be right".

I find it depressing. So I stay in my little bubble and make pretty pictures.

And that's just fine - if you're not having fun what's the point? I used to be the moderator of a forum in a completely different fandom and the administrator, a friend of mine, said that over and over - there was no point sticking around if it wasn't fun because it was FANDOM. It was supposed to be fun. But then again the forum was invitation only, so people mostly knew one another and we mods watched the board and were willing to put out flare-ups, which rarely happened. And we used "agree to disagree" a lot.

And pretty pictures? DEFINITELY a legit expression of creativity and fannishness, as much as meta or fiction. In fact I think fanart doesn't get the kudos it deserves.

As I said, I don't respond to meta too much, but I'm sure on occasion there will be a post that peaks my interest, and I will feel compelled to add my $.02.

Please do and I hope I post some things you enjoy now and again! Infinitewhale expressed a desire to see more "fun and shallow" fandom posts, but those sorts of things may be found more readily on tumblr nowadays? I'll definitely try to post some fun things but we'll see how well I do with that.

Or what's a beta for? And, is there a beta in your meta?

Re: Edited, Ignore earlier version of this reply, please.