"Welcome to the Hellmouth" / "Bring on The Night"

[red_satin_doll]

"You're standing at the mouth of Hell. And it's about to open up." *

***
"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared.
I'm standing on the mouth of Hell and it's going to swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me." **

* Joss Whedon
** Marti Noxon & Douglas Petrie

Comments

[drizzlydaze.livejournal.com]

If you were to rank the seasons, where would S7 fall for you? I'm curious as to why you like S7, since there generally aren't many fans for it. I wish I could like it more than I do. One of my big problems with it is how a lot of the plot doesn't make sense even with all the fanwank in the world, which just takes me out of the story. I could go into specifics, but I'm sure you know the spiel. Spuffy is, of course, a major saving grace of the season for me. So, just wondering--reasons you like S7? Anything to say on the plot?

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

If you were to rank the seasons, where would S7 fall for you?

See, "ranking" is not something that comes naturally to me at all; my brain rebels against it. I'm not a "listmaker". I can catagorize things into groupings, f.ex. I recently was a judge for a fanfiction awards and I could put stories into "meh" "maybe" and "yes" categories very easily, but then having to pick a 1,2,3 order was a nightmare for me.

So, 5-7 are my favorites emotionally because that's when I most identify with Buffy; which one "first" depends on my mood and the time of day. 4 and 1 are underrated, 2 has the best and tightest Big Bad arc and in some ways is the best season in terms of objective tv entertainment, - except that there's a lot of forgettable crap around that arc; 3 is the most overrated IMO because a lot of mainstream fandom thinks it's a great season and I find it "meh". The descriptions of S4 as not having a cohesive story arc but some really great standalone eps fits 3 very well.

So, just wondering--reasons you like S7? Anything to say on the plot?

That's a hard question to answer. As in, I could be here all day, are you sitting down? Some of it may be my natural tendency to want to protect the underdog; but I do think it has something to do with the fact that, as I've said before, I watched the entire show within three weeks and it was like reading a novel, rather than watching in real time and having lots of time to digest stuff and think about stuff, etc. Maybe things that don't bother me now will later on. I also think I share something of ever_neutral's philosophy about S7, about "not being fussed" by stuff that doesn't hold up; I appreciate the way it completes the "Hero's Journey" as lostboy wrote about; I like that it continues to go deeper psychologically - the story is about Buffy's journey and it makes sense that the final Big Bad she would have to face would be "herself".

I love the Buffy/Spike of course - the sense of grace, forgiveness and intimacy, the way they have each other's back in much more profound ways than simply fighting on the battlefield; it's the reward for all the shit they put each other through the previous season.

I get what pisses people off about the season: the Potentials ARE annoying, I mostly can't stand Andrew and he gets too much screentime IMO; the racefail is HUGE (the Shadowmen sequence makes me cringe), and the Slayer spell has some really wonky implications politically. That is, it works on a metaphorical level as the completion of Buffy's journey, not so much on a RL feminist level, etc. I'm bothered that Wood is dismissed in a sense, made into a bad guy in comparison with Spike; it's one of those "both wrong and both right" situations that isn't handled as well as it could have been. And Wood is Buffy's only real connection to her Slayer past, to her "mothers", so to dismiss Wood on that level seems very odd to me and another oversight. I wish we'd seen the Coven Willow talks about. kwritten's meta on Dawn in S7 is spot-on about how the series disempowers Dawn; I was hoping to see more of her b/c I love her and Buffy's relationship.

But I'm still fascinated by the things that do work. The Giles and Buffy relationship; there are so many reasons why it goes that way, has been heading down that path for a long time, that have nothing to do with Spike. The ghost of Joyce haunting Buffy and Dawn; of course the First would appear as Joyce, she's the only one who can unnerve the sisters so thoroughly because the loss is still so keenly felt. I love that Xander finally starts to grow up and is really mature in ways he hadn't before. That Faith and Buffy realize that they are not all that different from each other after all; they've had to "meet in the middle" and as with Buffy and Spike, see one another as individuals rather than mirrors/extensions of themselves or their own fears/desires.

So I really would have to sit down and write a lot of meta essays to make sense of what I do or don't like about it in a more coherent fashion, sorry! I probably haven't answered your question.

[drizzlydaze.livejournal.com]

Ha, interesting preference of seasons. I've seen late season lovers aplenty, but not with the combination of disliking 3 and loving 1 and 4.

I watched the entire show within three weeks and it was like reading a novel, rather than watching in real time and having lots of time to digest stuff and think about stuff, etc.

Me too, actually. I did marathon the entire thing in three weeks, but I still felt some of the pacing issues the fandom did. Like S4--I stopped for a day or two after a few episodes of that, felt it was a bit slow. I love the Initiative and don't see the problem with Adam, but I didn't feel that overwhelming need to see more after those few eps. Same with S7. The plot holes annoyed me; it felt like I was always missing something because characters kept doing things that didn't make sense. And I thought there was way too little of the Scoobies in S7, too little character, and way too much of a plot that was uninteresting in execution (good idea, though. Killing the Potentials, psychological Big Bad). It's just... I see what you like about the season. I like those things about the season too. But when watching, the overall feeling I get is just... Well, the bad just seems to overwhelm the good when I watch. When I first watched.

Haha, nah, you did answer my question. In the end, the good and bad points of the season are generally agreed upon; it just depends on how you personally viewed their proportions and execution.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Hah, here's the thing - I see exactly what you're saying too and pretty much agree with all of it. Especially the "When I first watched." So admittedly I do rewatch mostly in bits and pieces - the stuff I like 'cause, hey, that's what Netflix and DVD's are there for, right? :) So I can see the pacing problems you describe, absolutely - I remembering thinking yeah, I get where people are coming from; when I got done with S7 I thought "I won't need to watch that again" but I find myself going back to it quite a bit...again, the stuff I like and am interested in.

Haha, nah, you did answer my question. In the end, the good and bad points of the season are generally agreed upon; it just depends on how you personally viewed their proportions and execution.

Did I? Cool beans. I think your summation is completely spot-on. And it works for any season: I rarely go back to S3 except for those 'standalones' (The Wish, Anne, Earshot) because the Bangel stuff that season drives me to tears (of boredom). But a lot of fandom considers it the best overall. YMMV