Potential Rupert Giles Prompt Puppy (don't say "bunny" or Anya will freak, 'kay?)

[red_satin_doll]

ETA 10/08/13: Dead Things screencap

Has anyone ever written a Buffyverse fic in which Giles, not Willow, becomes the Big Bad? The idea occurred to me not long after reading  the episode notes for WTTH  by 2maggie2

In the Bronze, Buffy sees Giles up on the balcony, and he calls her attention to the others out there dancing -- she’s separate from them, with a duty to protect them.  (The scene gets called back in season six in Dead Things when Spike adds another layer to Buffy’s fundamental separation from others – but it starts here in the very first episode).

(Dead Things screencap courtesy of www.bloodqueen.com)

Maggie is talking specifically within the context of how Buffy is separated from her friends/family as the Slayer from the very first episode, but her comments brought back the memory of one of my first visceral reactions to the series.  There was something astonishingly creepy about the way Giles is suddenly "there", beside her, an older man next to a 16-year-old girl (foreshadowing Bangel), and I didn't have a "bead" on his character yet. The idea that he would turn out to be a villain who betrays Buffy and isn't what he seems, was as likely a notion as anything else.  All of which turns out to be true and false at the same time: he doesn't turn out to be a villain but he does have a dark past as the Ripper (as does Angel), he does betray Buffy at times (Helpless, LMPTM), he kills a man behind Buffy's back knowing she wouldn't approve (The Gift).

And when I watched the balcony scene in Dead Things ("Alone in dark with me") my mind was racing back to the parallel scene in WTTH, giving both scenes greater emotional power - foreshadowing squared to th nth egree. The writers surely could not have imagined any of these events when this was written and shot, bu bless* them for knowingly or unknowingly providing the bones right from the start for everything that was to come.

So if I'd had to guess which of the Core Four was most likely to become a Big Bad down the road at the time I was watching S1, I probably would have said Giles.  So it got me wondering if "Giles as the Big Bad" has been done as a fanfiction.  I can't imagine someone in the last 15 years hasn't played with the concept.  If Willow as the Big Bad was fraught with emotional turmoil, the drama and angst of Giles in that role could make LMPTM look like a Sunday cake-walk.

So, gentle flisters - point me the way to one that's already been written, or let that little puppy play around in your head for a while until you come up with something grand. FYI : I've decided to adopt the term plot puppy because: it's still a small, cute animal that you can stroke and love and huggle, and it won't upset Anya needlessly. In this case, a puppy with very sharp teeth that isn't nearly as harmless as it looks.

ETA: beer_good_foamy  and I both ended up rec'ing the same story in the convo thread below,  "All Set Down" desoto_hia873 , an AU take on The Gift (and as you know I seem to have a kink for those.)  Giles is forced to perform a terrible but necessary act.  It doesn't quite fit the "Giles as Big Bad" criteria but it really is quite good.

** (Yes, I know Joss is an atheist. So am I. Or maybe agnostic. Let's go with "undecided".)

Posted on Dreamwidth http://red-satin-doll.dreamwidth.org/11747.html

Comments

[baphrosia.livejournal.com]

It doesn't truly fit your criteria either, but 'Clocks of the Long Now' certainly sets Giles up as a Big Bad.

I've also seen a story where Spike and Buffy time-travel back to the 70's and encounter Ethan and Ripper. Not quite Giles as *the* Big Bad either, but it provides a glimpse of a somewhat out of control Giles. I can't remember who wrote it or what it was called though.

I was actually thinking about Giles, his push for independence, and leaving in S6, and really, Tony had other places to be that season. That's it. Otherwise, him leaving - especially the first time, before they raise Buffy from the dead - makes zero sense. *Giles* would leave the Hellmouth unprotected and Dawn without financial security? Uh... NO. That was just to prepare us all so it wasn't so surprising when he left again. The entire set-up to Buffy's big crappy year is poorly done. I'm really supposed to believe that nobody was contributing financially? Hello, what would have happened if they hadn't managed to bring Buffy back? If it had been RL rather than plot contrivance (ignoring that there's no raising the dead in RL :)), the financial stuff would have been taken care of, not left to pile up. There's no way ANY of those normally responsible adults would have left Dawn in such dire straights. I can't hate the Scoobies for their giant, writer-caused, OOC behaviour when it comes to the financial stuff that is, for some strange reason, all Buffy's responsibility.

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Giles, his push for independence, and leaving in S6, and really, Tony had other places to be that season. That's it. Otherwise, him leaving - especially the first time, before they raise Buffy from the dead - makes zero sense.

::nods wisely::

Are you familiar with the concept of Doylist (or doylian) versus Watsonian story logic? Basically, Watsonian logic is in universe, and doylist is out of universe. Giles leaving in season 6 makes zero sense in-universe. But Tony head wanting to spend more time with his family makes total doylist sense. The writers fell down on their jobs though; their justifications never really work. Spike sticking with Angel in (AtS) season 5 is another good example. From a doylist perspective the network insisted that Spike move to Angel's team in order for the series to be renewed. But it never really works from a watsonian perspective IMO.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Basically, Watsonian logic is in universe, and doylist is out of universe.

I first heard of those terms on gabrielleabelle's LJ and they're very helpful; as I said to spuffy_luvr though, if I need an out because I'm pissed at something or someone in the story and can't make sense of it, I always get to blame the writers. RL doesn't offer that "out" (damn it.)

I've noticed that Maggie's episode notes analyze the show entirely from a Watsonian perspective, and there actually is very little that occurs in the show that can't be accounted for in that way, which is fairly amazing.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I've read several chapters of Clocks of the Long Now but admit I didn't finish it. It's great storytelling but complicated and dense, and I probably needed to be in the right mood for it; I keep meaning to go back. (I keep wishing I could read some of these long fanfics in book form because i find it harder to read long fics on the computer, whereas I can sit for hours with a book in my hand. I don't know if it's my eyes, or something about the computer itself and my ADD-ish distractability that's the issue. )

For some reason that time-travel fic sounds familiar, I don't think I read it but I may have bookmarked it for later?

*Giles* would leave the Hellmouth unprotected and Dawn without financial security? Uh... NO.

Have you read Molly May's meta on Giles, and her explanation why Giles is not acting OOC in later seasons (specifically S7) http://molly-may.livejournal.com/151594.html
It's my favorite Giles meta, because I noticed when I rewatched the first ep of S4 that Giles was already turning Buffy away and saying "I'm not your watcher anymore" - which he tries to do again in S5. He keeps trying to pull away, then keeps coming back.

So it's a double-edged sword for me, in that I absolutely agree with Molly intellectually, and with you emotionally if that makes sense? It probably comes back to the Doylist vs Watsonian perspectives zanthinegirl mentions. (I first encountered the terms on gabrielleabelle's LJ.) In that, I can make sense of what Giles does in-story because it's been hinted at since S4, but I'm still pissed at him for doing so AND I absolutely agree that the writers really dropped the ball in how they handled it.

And in terms of Buffy's economic dilemma - yeah, big-time screw up there. Wasn't Hank paying child support for Dawn? Come to think of it, how were Willow and Tara making any money at that point? (I've read the fanwank that Tara receives money from her family but the episode "Family" contradicts that, IMO. Perhaps she did at one point but the break from her family is pretty definite in that episode.) Did any of the writers come from working class or poor backgrounds? I wouldn't be surprised if they all came from comfortable middle-class backgrounds. (American tv series tend to deal with these issues rather poorly anyway, unless it's explicitly a major theme of the show.) Again, I could go on an extended rant here, being working-class poor and raised by a single mom so - yeah, I love S6 but that stuff just irks me. But then they never bother dealing with these issues in the earlier seasons either - Joyce is a single mom but we have no idea how she makes a living (generous divorce settlement?), or Giles during S4 for that matter.

Rahirah's Barbverse does a much better job of touching on those issues - Hank comes back to try to take custody of Dawn, Buffy and Spike work for a living and juggle jobs during their marriage, etc.

I can't hate the Scoobies for their giant, writer-caused, OOC behaviour

*nods* That's the great thing about a fictional story vs RL - when I'm pissed at what's going on or what someone is doing, there's always an "out" and I can blame the writers. :)

the financial stuff that is, for some strange reason, all Buffy's responsibility.

Hmm, maybe I should have seen the outcome of S8 (it's all Buffy's fault!) coming? (Not that I consider it canon, no ma'am, not at all. But the theme is depressing, isn't it? Buffy takes responsibility for Angel losing his soul, for Riley leaving, for the end of magic in the world, etc etc. Because taking responsibility for multiple world save-age isn't enough? hey, Joss, can we cut Our Girl some slack already?)