Hypocrisy Thy Name is RedSatinDoll : Y'All Voted My Icon 3rd Place at Otherworldlyrics icontest 165!

[red_satin_doll]

So while I was bitching and moaning about how hard it is for me to vote in icontests because of all the great work I just can't decide and don't you feeeeeel myyyyyy paiiiiiiinnnn...

this happened:

I mean - REALLY? Are you sure there wasn't a miscount? Because I am happy as all get out but also perplexed because there were so many WONDERFUL entries to chose from.

I'm just - REALLY?

Thank you to everyone who voted for my icon!  I'm honored (and astonished and happy and giggly and perplexed) because there's some fantastic entries here. (Who did #5? I NEED TO KNOW THIS!)

But all the credit has to go to my Beta-Muse wickedbish who pretty much held my hand (as always) when I threw 41 icons at him because I couldn't chose. He picked this one partly because he thought it captured Buffy's overprotectiveness of Dawn. It wasn't my personal favorite and I probably - scratch that, I definitely wouldn't have submitted it without his advice.  And I came damn near ignoring his advice and sending other icons except

1) I remembered my own experiences as a beta for writer friends when they seek my advice and then don't take it when it doesn't; not that they have to take my advice, but when that turns into a pattern? Frustration sets in: "Ok, so why are you asking my advice if you're not gonna take it?" It felt awful disrespectful of what he offers and for free. And,

2) The last time, I won third place with an icon I wouldn't have submitted except for his advice.

So, this icon maker has learned her lesson: I'm an awful judge of my own stuff. This is why I go to Ryan. So, I need to stfu and TRUST that he knows his shit.

CONGRATULATIONS to the other winners spikesredqueen & xclaire_delunex!  Really lovely, simple, powerful icons this round.

BTW - my other submissions were #6 & #10. I'll share the other ones I made but didn't submit tomorrow ETA:i as soon as I can get the darn post finished.  t was a fun challenge!

And don't ask me what I voted for btw because I honestly DO NOT remember, I was so torn in so many directions. I will admit that I voted for #5 - I am CRAZY IN LOVE with that icon, whoever made it. I also especially liked 7, and 12-14, so I could have voted for any of them.

Comments

[kwritten.livejournal.com]

Congratulations!!!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Thanks sweetie!

ETA: OMG you did 5, 7 & 14? (I'm looking at your post right now btw - and I LOVE that you talk about the process of making the icons. Because you're making ART.) You are part of the reason why the voting tore me up and I couldn't decide. I KNOW I voted for 5 and I don't often go crazy in love with Willow icons but that one - GAH. YESYESYES.

I definitely voted for 5, 14 and 7 was my alternate. Not that that matters or anything.

[wickedbish.livejournal.com]

Yay! Oh, I'm so happy! As always, it was a joy to peruse your work & talk about it. I've been rather contentedly brain-dead the past few days, so that was a fun, and much-needed, little sparky spark.

And yeah, I know my shit. Heh.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

As always, it was a joy to peruse your work & talk about it.

Ryan that makes me SO happy - I'm teary-eyed right now. When I sent you the email I was thinking to myself that I was being a bother and intrusive and taking up your time and effort for free and...etc etc. I felt bossy and demanding for even asking you to look at them. You know, low self-esteem bullshit.

So reading this means a lot to me.

And yeah, I know my shit. Heh.

Did you see my new tag? *points upward* it's supposed to read "handmaiden" but oh well. I am a full convert to the Church of Wickedbish.

[wickedbish.livejournal.com]

Oh, now, you stop that! Other than a midnight showing of the Veronica Mars movie, going over your icons was seriously the only time all weekend I did anything other than sleep or work or watch Gilmore Girls. It was a complete thrill, and I look forward to the next time.

And, uh, that tag would fit if you changed "wickedbish" to "ryan." I mean, I'm kidding, obviously, but.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I actually was going to use Ryan instead of wickedbish but thought, will people know which Ryan I'm talking about? (Like, is anyone really looking at my tags and is there any other Ryan?) *lol*

It was a complete thrill, and I look forward to the next time.

OMG, you are way too kind!

[wickedbish.livejournal.com]

Goddammit, people should know my name. Heh.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Well the tag is fixed now at least, and if people don't know your name it won't be for my lack of trying!

[wickedbish.livejournal.com]

Aw, thanks for indulging my mock-serious vanity.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Vanity is highly underrated.

Srsly - I don't know how it works for guys in general, but I suspect it's much the same as for girls (in this culture)? "We want you to be proud of your accomplishments - but not TOO proud! Stand up for yourself - but don't be immodest! blah blah bitty blah....."

Actually that describes Willow and her mom (parents) pretty well, doesn't it? "be a good girl, make your father and I proud, live up to your potential...but don't exceed it. be intelligent - but don't ask questions." And so on.

I wish we knew more about her relationship with her father - I suspect he's the passive on in the family, but I don't get the sense of closeness or supportiveness of his daughter, if only by his absence from the screen. He takes care of the physical needs, and probably cares about his daughter but in an abstract way. He's fond and nice, but not the one to go to for deep sharing. *hugs Willow*

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

SQUEE! Congratulations!!!! *does the dance of joy*


Gabrielle

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

*puts on music and dances with you*
http://gifsoup.com/view/2712209/perfect-strangers-dance-of-joy.html


Thank you!

[spikesredqueen.livejournal.com]

Yay! Congrats!!! I voted for your Buffy #6 icon!!! It was so hard to decide! I also love your other icons!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Congratulations to you as well! 12 and 13 were two of my favorites and I kept going back and forth - I think I ended up voting for 12 because it told a complete story in a single image and I liked that. 5 minutes later I would have chosen 13 - what gorgeous font *iz jealous* and those slashmarks on her back, the tight crop, wow, what emotional/visual impact! What fandom is #13 for?

I voted for your Buffy #6 icon!!! It was so hard to decide! I also love your other icons!

I have so much stupid love for #6 you have NO idea - I actually made quite a few icons just of that scene with different crops and colors and I love every single one of them. My beta Ryan singled out that version of it so that's why I went with that one. (If I had my druthers I'd have submitted 15 icons to this round if I could have. God this round was such fun - by fun I mean tons of emotion and angst of course.)

Thanks, hon! I'm really honored (and floored) to be in such good company.

[spikesredqueen.livejournal.com]

#13 is Cordelia from Angel season 3. I am so flattered by your compliments!! Thank you!

It really was very fun that round!

I feel the same to be in such good company! *hugs*

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

That was Cordy? I assumed it was from another fandom. (And OMG between btvs and ats how much shit does that poor woman take?)

[spikesredqueen.livejournal.com]

Yep, that was Cordelia from Season 3 Episode That Vision Thing on Angel. :) I know, she did take quite a lot of shit between the shows. I gotta say it really help develop her character though.

[chasingdemons.livejournal.com]

World domination right around the corner! Congratulations!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

My friends shall have their pick of plum assignments when I ascend, of course. *LMAO*

Thanks so much!

[lynnylou.livejournal.com]

Congrats!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Merci!

[kikimay]

Congrats! And gotcha again!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You did indeed! But you have excellent taste, clearly.

[teragramm.livejournal.com]

I'm an awful judge of my own stuff Me too! I never seem to like the the one everyone else does and I'm always surprised by that.

I remembered my own experiences as a beta for writer friends when they seek my advice and then don't take it when it doesn't; not that they have to take my advice, but when that turns into a pattern? I've had that happen. At that point, I say my goodbye. Why should we both be wasting our time? I usually find that writers who don't take any advise, usually just want a cheerleader not a beta. Someone who is going to tell them how wonderful their writing is and no critique.

Congrats on third place.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You're using the stained glass icon! *squees*

I never seem to like the the one everyone else does and I'm always surprised by that.

*nods*

I usually find that writers who don't take any advise, usually just want a cheerleader not a beta. Someone who is going to tell them how wonderful their writing is and no critique.

I wrote a short post on betas back in July that sparked an interesting discussion, and that was one of the points I made, because I've had that experience: http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/20858.html

I've even had to ask someone "What do you actually WANT from me?" Because if someone wants a cheerleader, I can be that. And in a way I'm glad that I have been there, because I might have discounted Ryan's advice outright. And the thing is, no artist is EVER obligated to listen to their beta, and I say that to my friends when I look at their writing; but yeah, after a while, you have to walk away. I can count on one hand the number of people who ask for my advice and are able to really listen to it, then we can discuss it and it turns into something richer, and that conversation is part of the process. It's really special when it does work.

Bottom line, betas (muses, special readers, feedback friends, etc) don't get the love they deserve.

[teragramm.livejournal.com]

and the thing is, no artist is EVER obligated to listen to their beta, and I say that to my friends when I look at their writing Absolutely! In fact, I prefer if a writer doesn't take all of my advise. I like it when they pick and chose the advise they take and the advise they don't. To me that means they are listening but they still want it to be their story. I once had to excuse myself from being a beta because I felt like I was writing the story.(Although to be honest, it was mainly because English wasn't her first language.)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I like it when they pick and chose the advise they take and the advise they don't. To me that means they are listening but they still want it to be their story.

YES. THAT'S the thing - listening. Each party bringing all their intelligence and ability to the table and meeting halfway.That's the key right there to any successful relationship (of course) but it can't be said enough. And I think there are no "rules" with betas (or is there a Handbook and no one told me?) so we're all making it up as we go along.

I once had to excuse myself from being a beta because I felt like I was writing the story.(Although to be honest, it was mainly because English wasn't her first language.)

There have been a couple of projects where it was reallly hard to disentangle myself emotionally, and I've learned from that.

And I also offered one time to beta someone's story when English wasn't their first language and I wasn't able to do it. It was just too much and I'm not a grammarian, which is what they needed. Another lesson learned - know my strengths and weaknesses.

[teragramm.livejournal.com]

And I think there are no "rules" with betas (or is there a Handbook and no one told me? No handbook but I have seen several well thought out posts (and I can't for the life of me find them) on what constitutes a good beta. If you ask your flist I'm sure some one will have a link.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Or maybe I need to write it, thanks muchly for the suggestions!

[clockwork-hart1.livejournal.com]

This will have to be fast because I'm in the middle of something important, but CONGRATULATIONS! The icon is perfect, it sums up Buffy as the Protector, always throwing herself in front of her sister to save her from the world that wants to break her. It's beautiful, I love it.

And oh boy do I get your pain when it comes to voting - I want to vote for about six different things and can't bear to pick. I am indecisive and should be cured. Or whipped until I decide faster.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

It sums up Buffy as the Protector

that's what Ryan said - of course he also caught the irony of it, that Buffy can be overprotective and sometimes that is NOT what Dawn needs. I think she overprotects to the degree that she herself was underprotected.

Wait until you see the other Dawn icons, I think you will like. :)

I am indecisive and should be cured. Or whipped until I decide faster.

I am TOTALLY against the application of pain and punishment for something you inherently are! You are particular and loving and appreciative and we should be indecisive together because we don't like to chose, we don't like to hurt anyone's feelings we just want to love! Let's celebrate that with hugs and puppies, not whippings or scoldings!

(I'm actually not kidding.)

[clockwork-hart1.livejournal.com]

Oh she is absolutely over protective of Dawn, understandably so, but still... Buffy prides herself as being indepedent - look at "Anne", she can live and work and survive sufficiently on her own, and even if she doesn't like it, she has a life of her own at 17 - but Dawn is babied because a) she's "the baby" and b) because try as she might, Buffy isn't a Mom and still sees Dawn as a child she has to take care of ("Weight Of The World", anyone?).

I think she overprotects to the degree that she herself was underprotected.

I hadn't thought of it this way before, but now you've made me think Buffy wants to keep Dawn young because Slayerhood stole youth away from her. By S3 she's grown and jaded, and I don't think she can bear Dawn going through that. Bearing that in mind, though, I think if Joyce had even an inkling of the danger Buffy was in nightly she'd have torn down heaven and earth to make sure her little girl was safe - and that's why Joyce couldn't be told.

Oh I'm not instigating violence for my every moment of indecision, but when you can't even pick between your glasses in the mornings there should be a little encouragement... But yes, absolutely yes to all the rest of it. Particularly puppies. I really want a puppy.

I have so many feelings about Joyce

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

she's "the baby" and b) because try as she might, Buffy isn't a Mom and still sees Dawn as a child she has to take care of

Part of the reason I'm often confused about the monks spell and wondered if it had an element of "overprotectiveness" built into it is the way everyone, not just Buffy, responds to Dawn. In fact, Buffy is almost the last person to commit to the idea. At the beginning of S5 her relationship with Dawn is incredibly - normal, actually; lots of sibling rivalry and annoyance; Buffy is jealous of Joyce's affection towards Dawn. "Why can't I be lil' pumpkin belly?"

and I'm sure you're correct about Buffy's personality as a child; she was probably a more independent personality straight out of the womb. then there's the need to protect her from Glory, nailed home by Joyce's "dying request" in Listening to Fear. Buffy makes a promise to a lady; Spike likewise makes a promise to a lady to protect Dawn from Glory AND from Giles.

then in Bargaining everyone is coddling her because she's now a de facto orphan so everyone naturally feels sorry for her and wants to make her feel better, and perhaps make themselves feel better at the same time: mother and sister dead, "real" father (Hank) nowhere to be found, "metaphorical father figure" (Giles) fairly well absorbed in his own grief and guilt (would Buffy have felt the need to sacrifice herself so keenly if Giles hadn't insisted that the ONLY other option was Dawn's death?)

Even Tara with her pancakes contributes to Dawn being overcoddled. (Have a pancake, ease my pain?) And like a normal teenager she wants attention and love, but rebels against it at the same time and tests the limits of her caretakers' boundaries.

if Joyce had even an inkling of the danger Buffy was in nightly she'd have torn down heaven and earth to make sure her little girl was safe

I think Joyce is very contradictory, which is why I find her fascinating, especially for such an underused character (considering her importance to Buffy and later to Dawn.) The same woman who whacks Spike with an axe in School Hard then says at the end of the episode that she "knows" Buffy can take care of herself. What the what now? Buffy was almost killed except for Joyce. This is also the same woman who let Buffy alone to walk an obviously much-older man (Angel) to the door in the episode of the same name. I guess that's a sign that she "trusts" Buffy - I can't imagine my mother doing the same. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

I really think that Buffy's (and later Dawn's) tendency to "denial" and willful blindness on certain issues comes from Joyce, I honestly do. She is a loving mother, and she wants to do the "right thing" but some of her parenting techniques esp in the early seasons seems to come straight out of an advice book on "parenting techniques"; and sometimes I do believe she turns the other way when she wants to. Buffy's accusation in Becoming has some weight - didn't she ever see the bloodstains? Why didn't she say anything then? And she shuts Buffy down when Buffy tries to talk to her in Ted after Buffy "killed" him. There are things she simply does not want to deal with, and often I think she'd really rather not know.

Giles says in The Harvest that people have an incredible capacity to deny what they'd rather not believe, and that very much applies to Joyce. The idea that denial is induced by the Hellmouth itself - I don't know if that becomes canon later in the series or is just fanon?

OTOH, she CAN be fiercely protective, and Buffy and Dawn get that from her as well. (It obviously doesn't come from Hank!) And when she comes from a genuine "heart place" she can be very eloquent and connect to Buffy in remarkable ways - Prophecy Girl, for instance. It's something else the Summers Women share.

But yes, absolutely yes to all the rest of it. Particularly puppies. I really want a puppy.

*looks around* Um, I don't have a puppy right now - how about a kitty?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Congrats! And another gorgeous icon, too.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

*Blushes crimson*

[rahirah]

Congratulations!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Thanks muchly, hon!

(Btw, I read your post about your sister this weekend and apologize for not coming by to comment. You've been in my thoughts for whatever that's worth.)

[snogged.livejournal.com]

Congratulations!! I'm proud of you. :)

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Oh sweetie, thank you so much for the kind words! *blushes*

[waddiwasiwitch.livejournal.com]

Well done.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Danke!