I do also find it troublesome that: Robin Wood is Buffy's closest link to her predecessors - the only real biological link she has - but Spike's story is prioritized.
Again, agreed. Agreed so hard.
For understandable reasons
Understandable for the narrative choices they'd been making up to that point, yes. Still problematic as fuck.
but still - the end of LMPTM and Robin ending up beaten, looking like one of the many black men and boys in the US who were beaten to death/lynched by whites in 18th-20th centuries, is very disturbing to me. In their eagerness to make their point - and yes, Spike is also defending himself, so maybe it's not different from Buffy in Ted - they go a bit overboard I think? F.ex. Robin's "bruises" are as ugly as Spike's in DT.
YES. It's so disturbing that Spike goes as far as to bite Robin. That was so much overkill to me it wasn't even funny, and I couldn't help feeling that Spike just did it because he could. Robin sure already looked bruised enough. And then there's Spike's handwaving of the murder as "we fought, I won". IDK but for me personally, that kind of thinking only counts when there isn't murder involved.
This was also addressed on the meta-commentathon, have you seen? Mostly about how Spike's still wearing Nikki's coat post-LMPTM. A very cool vid with accompanying meta was linked. It got me thinking kind of a lot.
Hah, me too! I think the dream that sticks with me most in some ways is Xander's because I'm getting information about him that has been hinted at but not really explored in any depth. And the satires of lipstick lesbian fantasies, and Apocalypse Now are pretty fantastic IMO.
TBH the lipstick lesbian thing mostly had me rolling my eyes, and I haven't seen Apocalypse Now so that flew over my head entirely.
Again, see my comments about Robin - they had seven years to get their shit together and they just kept failing on this.
Yes, it's seriously kind of spectacular.
OTOH - Tara also predicts her own death: "The blood cry, penetrating wound". I noticed that just a few weeks ago writing about the Buffy & Tara connection and holy SHIT; now I can't unsee it.
... holy SHIT indeed. Uhm. Wow. :( I wonder if that was intended.
YES. It's so disturbing that Spike goes as far as to bite Robin. That was so much overkill to me it wasn't even funny, and I couldn't help feeling that Spike just did it because he could. Robin sure already looked bruised enough
THIS exactly. It's the same thing as with DT, not trusting us to get the point nevermind the implications of where they're going. Common sense was nowhere on the premises, apparently. And it's worse because they went out of their way to make Robin, who I'd liked up until then, suddenly very stalkery and almost over the top bad guy, rather than acknowledging the very real pain of being a Slayer's son (and an orphan). Spike's little speech was just so patronizing and I think the show is presenting that as "truth"? Meh. Spike may know Buffy to a degree, but he's not the expert on Slayer psychology.
And then there's Spike's handwaving of the murder as "we fought, I won". IDK but for me personally, that kind of thinking only counts when there isn't murder involved.
In the context of the show's mythology I don't have as much problem with that one line by itself, it's everything else it's buried in that's the problem. Slayers are vampires are depicted as soldiers on opposing armies, basically, from the start, superpowered and meant to be enemies; it's a war. So I don't see it as "murder" in the way we mean it in civilian law. The fact that it gets handwaved by factions of fandom is what makes it more troubling IMO.
Mostly about how Spike's still wearing Nikki's coat post-LMPTM. A very cool vid with accompanying meta was linked. It got me thinking kind of a lot.
I saw that some time ago; I agree with the creators' meta assessment that the video itself doesn't communicate what they were trying to get across due to a lack of images to work with; but the thing that affected me most was this one observation: That "Spike is wearing Nikki Woods skin" FUCK I have never been able to look at that coat the same way since.
holy SHIT indeed. Uhm. Wow. :( I wonder if that was intended.
I honestly doubt it but it's still creepy as hell.
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red_satin_doll) wrote2013-06-12 11:14 am
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Again, agreed. Agreed so hard.
For understandable reasons
Understandable for the narrative choices they'd been making up to that point, yes. Still problematic as fuck.
but still - the end of LMPTM and Robin ending up beaten, looking like one of the many black men and boys in the US who were beaten to death/lynched by whites in 18th-20th centuries, is very disturbing to me. In their eagerness to make their point - and yes, Spike is also defending himself, so maybe it's not different from Buffy in Ted - they go a bit overboard I think? F.ex. Robin's "bruises" are as ugly as Spike's in DT.
YES. It's so disturbing that Spike goes as far as to bite Robin. That was so much overkill to me it wasn't even funny, and I couldn't help feeling that Spike just did it because he could. Robin sure already looked bruised enough. And then there's Spike's handwaving of the murder as "we fought, I won". IDK but for me personally, that kind of thinking only counts when there isn't murder involved.
This was also addressed on the meta-commentathon, have you seen? Mostly about how Spike's still wearing Nikki's coat post-LMPTM. A very cool vid with accompanying meta was linked. It got me thinking kind of a lot.
Hah, me too! I think the dream that sticks with me most in some ways is Xander's because I'm getting information about him that has been hinted at but not really explored in any depth. And the satires of lipstick lesbian fantasies, and Apocalypse Now are pretty fantastic IMO.
TBH the lipstick lesbian thing mostly had me rolling my eyes, and I haven't seen Apocalypse Now so that flew over my head entirely.
Again, see my comments about Robin - they had seven years to get their shit together and they just kept failing on this.
Yes, it's seriously kind of spectacular.
OTOH - Tara also predicts her own death: "The blood cry, penetrating wound". I noticed that just a few weeks ago writing about the Buffy & Tara connection and holy SHIT; now I can't unsee it.
... holy SHIT indeed. Uhm. Wow. :( I wonder if that was intended.
no subject
YES. It's so disturbing that Spike goes as far as to bite Robin. That was so much overkill to me it wasn't even funny, and I couldn't help feeling that Spike just did it because he could. Robin sure already looked bruised enough
THIS exactly. It's the same thing as with DT, not trusting us to get the point nevermind the implications of where they're going. Common sense was nowhere on the premises, apparently. And it's worse because they went out of their way to make Robin, who I'd liked up until then, suddenly very stalkery and almost over the top bad guy, rather than acknowledging the very real pain of being a Slayer's son (and an orphan). Spike's little speech was just so patronizing and I think the show is presenting that as "truth"? Meh. Spike may know Buffy to a degree, but he's not the expert on Slayer psychology.
And then there's Spike's handwaving of the murder as "we fought, I won". IDK but for me personally, that kind of thinking only counts when there isn't murder involved.
In the context of the show's mythology I don't have as much problem with that one line by itself, it's everything else it's buried in that's the problem. Slayers are vampires are depicted as soldiers on opposing armies, basically, from the start, superpowered and meant to be enemies; it's a war. So I don't see it as "murder" in the way we mean it in civilian law. The fact that it gets handwaved by factions of fandom is what makes it more troubling IMO.
Mostly about how Spike's still wearing Nikki's coat post-LMPTM. A very cool vid with accompanying meta was linked. It got me thinking kind of a lot.
I saw that some time ago; I agree with the creators' meta assessment that the video itself doesn't communicate what they were trying to get across due to a lack of images to work with; but the thing that affected me most was this one observation: That "Spike is wearing Nikki Woods skin" FUCK I have never been able to look at that coat the same way since.
holy SHIT indeed. Uhm. Wow. :( I wonder if that was intended.
I honestly doubt it but it's still creepy as hell.