red_satin_doll | "School Hard" / "Chosen"

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"School Hard" / "Chosen"

Like Mother, Like Daughter original artwork a gift to me from comlodge, an amazing artist and generous friend. Check out the original on her journal.

Apparently, Buffy isn't the only Summers woman who is going to be "a fireman [sic] when the floods roll back."

ETA:

beer_good_foamy reminded me that Joyce's threat to Spike, "You get the HELL away from my daughter!" (Rock on, Joyce!) could be seen as applicable to Buffy's actions in Chosen, if we consider the new Slayers as her metaphorical "offspring". (What's the plural for "childe"?)

Or, Kendra was her "daughter", Faith her "granddaughter", then Buffy and Faith got together and now the new Slayers have two mommies - which. ok, is kind of
incest-y, but no worse than the Fanged Four, right?

And Willow is their midwife. Something like that.

.

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I read a post on tumblr of all places wondering if, looking at the fandom in which it is all about the boys, Buffy was at all successful at what it was attempting to do--give the girl a story rather than be a footnote in the male-driven narrative.

Yeah, this - gives me pause. And I don't think it's the fault of the show itself, it's the culture that it's in. Our cultural paradigm really has not changed, not that we could expect it to in 10-15 years time. One tv show does not a revolution make, esp when the show itself is more liberal or progressive rather than transgressive. But - I can see why Joss would parody Twilight in the comics, even if the way he went about it was too "clever" (and not smart enough) by half. But it's a sobering reality.

I do think that it's easier to find tv series today centered around female characters than when I was growing up - but then again there's also a lot more channels to fill than when we had the Big Three, PBS, and where I lived CBC from Ontario. Also we have Netflix so I have instant access to decades worth of series including British tv. (but not Nurse Jackie, damnit.)

Movies however are still a different thing, but I think the presumption is still that "women control the remote but they don't go to the movies."

Sort of related, something else that I became aware of watching the show last year was that the depiction of Willow and Tara's relationship should have opened up the floodgates for more lesbian characters on tv - and I'm setting aside the bad old tropes raised by SR for a moment because whatever issues I have with it don't negate all that was good about that relationship or the depiction of it. But what do we have more than a decade later? the occasional side character (and still usually gay male not lesbian); two characters in Ringer who fit stereotypes that date back to 1860's France or 1960's dime novels (dark haired sophisticated European "lesbian" seductress and blond-haired unstable bisexual who falls under her spell, and is also mentally ill and a psycho killer etc etc - bad Sarah, no biscuit!) Or the "lesbian Robin doppleganger" on HIMYM (short hair, cowboy boots, flannel shirt and baseball glove is still shorthand for "lesbian"? What the creeping blue FUCK? It's still a pretty piss-poor picture.

Definitely the culture we live in, I agree. It's driven me to almost anti-shipperism.

Ringer was a let-down. So many interesting possibilities in the pilot. I don't know if it got CWified or what, but I didn't care for the obvious plotlines.

What the creeping blue FUCK? It's still a pretty piss-poor picture.

Perhaps it's due to a lack of lesbian showrunners? Straight people who don't really know how to write them, so they go back to tropes. Most US TV writers and showrunners are as disconnected from society as our politicians are. Most grew up in Hollywood, 2nd or 3rd generation screenwriters. Of course, so did Joss, so I don't know.

Almost? You're more patient than I am. I think the emphasis on "ships" (as much as I heart Buffy and Spike in S7) has challenged me to think and write about other aspects of the show and other characters. Which is good thing, but trying to write about Buffy's story and BtVS as a whole without mentioning Spike - or S6 - or anything that could possibly, ever ever offend or upset anyone? MAJOR challenge.

Maybe that's also why I've started to read B/A/S fics, like Elisi's. I agree with her - shipping the three of them at once eliminates lots of headaches.

Ringer was a let-down. So many interesting possibilities in the pilot.

Weirdly enough the very end of the season was when my interest perked up again (evil/crazy lesbians to the contrary) because there was a shift in the narrative; originally Siobhan was a 2-dimensional villainess and Bridget the warm loveable protagonist, but then the story started to give Siobhan more depth and delved into their backstory more - by which point I realized that Bridget was really in deep in her own rationalizations and fantasies despite the shiny new moral compass provided by NA. I mean - basically doing to her sister's husband what Faith did to Riley in AYW. And that's actually what got me watching it was an interview with Sarah where she talked about the moral ambiguities, and hey, I'm always up for that. Which is to say I agree with you - a lot of wasted promise and not even trashy enough to be a true guilty pleasure.

Perhaps it's due to a lack of lesbian showrunners? Straight people who don't really know how to write them, so they go back to tropes.

You may be right (aren't there more power lesbians by now, or is there no trickle-down effect from Ellen and Melissa and etc?) OTOH it's not just the tropes, it's the fact that lesbian characters still don't even exist. Period. There were more lesbians "under cover" back in the 1960's, disguised as librarians and teachers and working girls and nosy neighbors, it feels like. And don't forget Roseanne in the 1980's.

I think our culture and our media, or those who run our media, aren't interested in women to begin with; but doubly-so with lesbians - no men in our beds, ergo no interest from those who "run the show". IMO

Most US TV writers and showrunners are as disconnected from society as our politicians are. Most grew up in Hollywood, 2nd or 3rd generation screenwriters.

But lesbians aren't a weird, exotic species of bird in Madagascar that they've only seen in picture-books. (ok, I just make myself giggle.)

Which is good thing, but trying to write about Buffy's story and BtVS as a whole without mentioning Spike - or S6 - or anything that could possibly, ever ever offend or upset anyone? MAJOR challenge.

I used to be like that. Then I quit caring about offending people. :P Eventually you just get tired of the same old arguments, usually with the same old people. I say almost because it's unfair to hate a character or ship because of parts of their fanbase. I was really starting to dislike Spike for awhile because of some fans, but the fans were the problem, not the character. I just couldn't (and still can't) get my head around what some think the show was actually trying to say.*

I could never get into B/S/A because I just don't ever see Angel or Spike settling for something like that, nor do I really see Buffy settling either.

*This goes back to my one post about writers interacting with fans. Truth is, I don't think we get the AR without that S5-S6 writer/fan sniping. Writers were saying one thing, fans were arguing another. The writers swung the sledgehammer to prove their point. I know the official explanation is they needed it to happen for the soul quest, but I just don't buy it. You don't go that far for something like that.

Then I quit caring about offending people. :P Eventually you just get tired of the same old arguments, usually with the same old people.

I was re-reading two of my first posts here the other day (about Buffy, Spike and Riley) and realized I was a little more fearless then (last September). I think I'm getting back there but I'm trying to focus mostly on underexplored subjects or characters of the show rather than get into the same old arguments. but I can see some of those arguments as unavoidable. Maybe all the arguments? There are some things that I won't get into at this point (maybe later) because right now it's not worth it to me, I haven't figured out how to say things in a way that others haven't already, or someone else has pretty much "claimed" the character for themselves. So, whatever.

I say almost because it's unfair to hate a character or ship because of parts of their fanbase.

Very true. I don't find myself hating a character because of fans - more often, I get defensive on behalf of a character or because of interpretations that seem off or incomplete TO ME (which is what motivated my Ted meta, honestly). I don't presume to have the OTI (One True Interpretation). Except when I do (such as "Angel and Buffy have a forever love"? Um, no.)

I could never get into B/S/A

Neither could I until recently - and it's not something I see happening in canon (outside of fantasy) but I've found a couple of fanfics that write the threesome charmingly, so I can enjoy those for what they are. (I rarely read "Spangel"; if there isn't at least one woman involved in a ship, I'm usually not interested. Even from an erotic fantasy standpoint. And I don't love two male characters enough to want to seem them together to the exclusion of any and all women. YMMV)

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"School Hard" / "Chosen"

I knew I forgot to say something last time!

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