red_satin_doll | Canon-related questions for Buffyologists

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Canon-related questions for Buffyologists

There's a couple of items about Buffy Summers that I've seen in several fanfics and wondered if they were "canon" or "fanon" information. I don't trust my memory, especially when I've probably spent more hours at this point reading fanfiction than actually watching the show. (What that says about me I shudder to imagine.)

By "canon", I am of course referring to BtVS, seasons 1-7 only, not the comics (aka Get behind me, Satan!)

1) Is Buffy's given name "Buffy" or "Elizabeth"? I've read "Elizabeth Anne Summers" used in several fanfics and it feels like it might have been mentioned somewhere in S1-3 on the show, if at all?

Actually, I just wanted an excuse to post this screencap. But while you're here:

2) Does Buffy refer to herself in third person at any other point on the show except for Life Serial: "stupid Buffy" "freak Buffy"? A lot of stories have her refer to herself in this way, usually when she's berating herself, although generally not while drunk. (For someone who can't hold her liquor she seems to drink quite a lot of it in LS. Slayer metabolism, apparently.)

Also, she generally does so whilst kicking herself mentally over something regarding Spike, so do early season/Bangel 'ship writers have her referring to herself in this manner as well?

No, no further questions; I just love SMG in this episode so damn much I can hardly stand it. I mean - come on, Giles, how can you resist that face? Buttons and puppies are weeping in envy. Now do your duty to your Slayer and hand her the check without making her feel like it's an act of charity on your part.

I love Giles, I do. But damn it, he can be an ass sometimes.

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I can't think of any other examples of that usage, no. But then again, the TV show rarely if ever gave us Buffy's internal monologue anyway, did it? So any clue as to how she might refer to herself in her thoughts will be seized on gratefully.

That seems very...un-British? And modern? Maybe because I associate the name with a certain blond California slayer, of course.

Three people I know of called Buffy: Buffy Bowes-Lyon (1900-2002), Buffy Sainte-Marie (1941-) and Buffy Summers (1981-97, 1997-2001, 2001-)

However, to me it sounds less like a Californian name and more like the sort of thing a P J Wodehouse character might have as a nickname. "I say, Bertie; good old Buffy and Todger are coming over to your aunt's tea-party tomorrow. Top-hole, eh what?"

But then again, the TV show rarely if ever gave us Buffy's internal monologue anyway, did it? So any clue as to how she might refer to herself in her thoughts will be seized on gratefully.

True dat. I remember once she said "note to self: religion freaky" ("note to self" is actually a phrase I use quite a bit myself, long before I watched the show) but I don't think I see that nearly as often. But then, I've read a lot (too much?) Spuffy fic and that's probably why "stupid Buffy" is used so much, because Life Serial is a very 'shippy episode for Spuffies. (I wonder how Buffy's inner dialogue would vary, if at all, if I read mostly Bangel fics?)

spuffy_luvr posted a meta a couple of weeks ago, asking "Who is Buffy Summers?"
http://spuffy-luvr.livejournal.com/13423.html
because she was contemplating writing an AH fic and wanted help with Buffy's character. And several of us responded - but just a few people albeit with long answers. And I'm not sure we ever answered the question? We got a lot into her psychology, but in terms of the simplest things, "can she cook?" "what are her hobbies?" "what career would she want?" We had nothing. We really do know so very little about her, Buffy the girl. I think that there's also an awful lot the Scoobies don't know about her, which reflects in their failure to "see" or recognize her (or not-her) several times in the series: Faith-in-Buffy, the Buffybot, S6's depression, etc. I remember Riley asking Willow for advice and all she could offer was that "she loves the Ice capades unironically" and "she likes cheese". HUH? What kind of cheese, Willow? I'm a gourmand/cook so sorry, I get picky there. (We never actually see her eating cheese anyway, but we do see her bring home a bucket o'friend chicken in S6.)

I ended up telling spuffy_luvr, basically that if canon doesn't tell you, then make it up and as long as it's believable and the characterization is solid, I'll buy it.

Three people I know of called Buffy:

I had forgotten about Buffy Sainte-Marie! Definitely 20th century but NOT California blond cheerleader girl. And the first person I'm not familiar with at all.

more like the sort of thing a P J Wodehouse character might have as a nickname. "I say, Bertie; good old Buffy and Todger are coming over to your aunt's tea-party tomorrow. Top-hole, eh what?"

I'd never thought of the name that way, good call. Now you've got me imagining what an AU buffyverse crossover with PJ Wodehouse would look like. At least Giles would fit in seamlessly. :)

The thing is, when talking about that kind of biographical detail of a character, you really do have to base everything on one or two hints in single episodes - which can lead someone unsympathetic to that particular view of the character to dismiss it by saying, "But she only did that once!"

Can Buffy cook?

Joyce was clearly a good cook, if the lavish Christmas dinner we saw she'd made in the flashback in 'The Body' is anything to go by. In 'Pangs', I get the impression that Buffy is trying to cook Thanksgiving dinner "the way Mom would do it". So elaborate cooking isn't beyond her. On the other hand, as people were saying in the thread you linked to, she's perfectly happy most of the time eating takeaway pizza or fried chicken or Chinese food. So my answer would be: she probably could cook 'properly', but she's not really interested in it. Other things have a greater claim in her time.

What are her hobbies?

Ice-skating is an obvious one to mention. Even with Slayer grace, I can't imagine you get as skilled as she was in 'What's My Line' without regular practice. As late as Season 3 she enjoys going to watch ice-skating shows every year; and in Season 4 Willow thinks that her love of watching skating is something her potential boyfriend should know about her.

It's true it's not ever mentioned later on, and it's difficult to see where late-season Buffy would ever have time to go skating; but I can certainly imagine it being something she remembers fondly/wishes she had more time for.

There's also another hobby we can talk about by inference. Buffy's dialogue is positively littered with casual pop-culture references, movie quotes, comparisons of people to TV characters, and so on. That implies that she spends a lot of time watching media; she's immersed in it. We do see a lot of scenes of her, Willow and Xander sat in front of the TV, often discussing or joking about what they're watching. So that's a hobby.

We very rarely see her reading anything on screen, but she does occasionally make references to literature rather than visual media, so presumably she does read sometimes. And Angel thought a book of poetry would make a good present for her, although fans still argue over whether that proves he was insightful or obtuse!

(One aspect of Buffy's character that wasn't mentioned: she plays at being a dumb blonde sometimes, either as protection or to wind up her friends. The classic example is in S5 when she pretends to Willow and Tara before a class on French literature that she's only familiar with the Disney cartoon version of 'Notre Dame de Paris'. She does it with Giles a lot as well.)

Presumably Buffy also likes fashion, since she wears a different outfit practically every episode and - according to Willow - makes the same high-pitched squeal when confronted with a shoe sale that she does when having sex... So I wouldn't think it out of place to describe her in a fic as having various fashion magazines scattered around her house. Maybe she reads them in the bathroom, which is why we never really saw them on screen in the TV show...

what career would she want?

Isn't it pretty much a plot point that Buffy herself doesn't know the answer to that? Florist. Law enforcement. Personal shopper. Waitress. She's going to be a fireman when the floods roll back. Fast food server. School counsellor. Leader of a terrorist organisation. Waitress again. Bodyguard. Police advisor...

spike_luvr the link to this because I had no idea you were actually going to answer my (rhetorical) list of questions, and I think she'd be delighted to read your take on Buffy for characterization in her own fics. (At least I think she still would be.)

So my answer would be: she probably could cook 'properly', but she's not really interested in it. Other things have a greater claim in her time.

That sounds exactly right.

in Season 4 Willow thinks that her love of watching skating is something her potential boyfriend should know about her.

Why did I forget about ice skating? (Because I'm trying to block that schmoopy scene with her and Angel out of my memory? heh) And I just remembered that in OAFA she's playing cards with Spike, so I guess we can assume it's not the first time she's picked up a deck.

We do see a lot of scenes of her, Willow and Xander sat in front of the TV, often discussing or joking about what they're watching. So that's a hobby.

Good catch! As late as Him she's turning to Xander and saying "no movie night" because of Dawn's "snit", so you're absolutely right on that.

And Angel thought a book of poetry would make a good present for her, although fans still argue over whether that proves he was insightful or obtuse!

*lol* A little of both? She enjoys haikus in her college poetry class, maybe sonnets from the portuguese was a bit much. (I have the impression of Angel as carrying the old-fashioned impulse to want to "improve and expand" someone's cultural knowledge and taste under the notion that he's doing something wonderful - because he's a product of his time, after all - but that the recipient might simply find patronizing.)

Speaking of the haikus - they are very short, very precise and can be extremely sophisticated (the genuine ones, not the ones we all churned out for class one day in US high school). But in S5 when Buffy mentions them to her professor as she's dropping the class, I get the impression that the viewer is supposed to interpret that as another sign that Buffy isn't all that bright, that a short little poem is all her brain can handle? I think that's the conscious inference we're supposed to be making?

Which actually goes along with what you said about her "playing the dumb blond" re: Hunchback of Notre Dame? I'm not sure if either of us are fanwanking, but in the early seasons I definitely got the impression that she played "dumb blond" when she felt like it, in part because it was usually done as a joke, and often at Giles' expense. When it happens in the later seasons, as with the scene you mentioned, it feels to me increasingly that it's being played as Buffy really only has seen the cartoon version that she is kind of dumb, in part because it feels like she herself is actually the butt of the joke (a shift from laughing with her to at her.) I may be wrong but I don't think I'm entirely "off"; the show isn't consistent in how smart it thinks Buffy is supposed to be, and is willing to play it either way as needed. And some of that is exaggerated in terms of her own sense of self in S6 (depression), while in S7 we see a turnaround when she gets hired as a counselor, etc. But even in First Date, Wood and Willow both laugh at her when she mentions the notion that she's earned a raise or promotion; so again, Buffy is the butt of the joke, or rather her perception of her own competence is (this time hopeful or exaggerated rather than the opposite.)

Say, can we call "sex" a hobby? because girlfriend clearly enjoys sex (as she should) - when she isn't beating herself up with self-loathing. That was the reason I liked Riley in S4 - happy, sexy, untraumatic funtimes for Buffy!

what career would she want? Isn't it pretty much a plot point that Buffy herself doesn't know the answer to that?

Good point.

I posted it in your journal so of course you can link to it. :)

Regarding haiku: one thing I only learned recently is that it's not enough to just make them the right number of syllables: for a 'classic' haiku you also have to include a reference to the seasons, the time of year, the weather, what flowers are in bloom, or something similar.

A proper haiku
Is not just "five-seven-five":
Mention the season!

it feels to me increasingly that it's being played as Buffy really only has seen the cartoon version

Actually, in that scene Tara believes Buffy, and Buffy has to hastily backtrack and admit she's kidding. So there's the issue: if Buffy pretends she's a dumb blonde too often, the people around her will start to take her at her word.

Sex as a hobby? I think TV-show Buffy is too wrapped up in romantic teenage notions of True Love Forever to think of it in those terms. Cookie-dough-still-baking Buffy might be more inclined to see it that way, and they do kind of show that in S8 and S9.

I posted it in your journal so of course you can link to it. :)

*facepalm* Oh yeah, right. I meant to say that.

for a 'classic' haiku you also have to include a reference to the seasons, the time of year, the weather, what flowers are in bloom, or something similar.

I'm quite certain I wasn't aware of that; but hardly the thing a fifth-grade teacher would throw out to her roomful of hyperactive charges. (alas)

Actually, in that scene Tara believes Buffy, and Buffy has to hastily backtrack and admit she's kidding. So there's the issue: if Buffy pretends she's a dumb blonde too often, the people around her will start to take her at her word.

I'd definitely forgotten that (if I hang around you long enough I'll be forced to do some serious rewatches so I'll stop embarrassing myself!)

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Canon-related questions for Buffyologists

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